Windlass options Maxwell VW vs RC series

[gaucho]

Im looking to buy a sailboat that has a manual windlass, so I was pricing an electric one to factor into the purchase decision. Here is my logic (so you guys see I have done as much as I can of the homework )

40 foot, heavy displacement cruiser (Passport)

60lb Manson Supreme (60lbs of weight)
Calculations for 250ft of G4 chain at 1.50 lbs a feet (375 lbs of weight)

Taking into consideration the 3x safety factor it's generally recommended, I arrived at the figure of 1305 lbs of maximum pull. Even if I consider a Supreme 80lbs and 300 feet of G4 chain, I still hit 1590 lbs, so Im well in the parameters with my two choices of windlass:

Maxwell VWC1500
Maxwell RC10-10

I understand the difference between this two models is the fact that the 1500 only takes chain and the RC10 takes chain and rope rode. Why would I want to go with the 1500? Why not go with the RC10, even if I will use only chain, but have the option at any point to splice in some rope rode if I ever need.

I have looked at the Maxwell site, searched online, and have not found anything on what advantages or differences the VW/VWC line has over the RC line, except for the difference in taking in rope. Could someone explain what advantages or disadvantages might come from either choice?

Also, there is a slight difference in price, the RC being cheaper than the VWC (both compared in kit form, with solenoid, controls, breaker, etc). Granted, the RC has no foot switches ... that's 100 bucks only. But with the price difference between the RC and the VWC I could go one step bigger with the RC, to the RC12, but it would be cost prohibitive to go to the 3500 on the VW series. At least were Im looking (Defender) they don't offer the 2500.

Whatever light you can shine onto this would be greatly appreciated.

[Jim Cate]

Gaucho, I can't offer advice re differences between the two models, but the warping drum on our VWC 1500 has been quite useful at times, despite our all chain bower rode. Examples:

Hoisting me up the mast.

Warping the boat into a dock with very strong winds pushing us off.

Raising our second anchor with its mostly rope rode.

And FWIW, we've found the Maxwell foot switches to be very reliable, where those offered by Lewmar and others are definitely not. Further, the 1500 has been adequately powerful for our 60 lb Manson and 10 mm chain... but not excessively so!

Jim

[a64pilot]

The drum on my VWC 1500 is why I bought it, as Jim said it's invaluable for other uses, I haven't had to yet, but that drum is what I believe will kedge me off when I go aground and run the Danforth out to the side with the dinghy.
I didn't install the foot switches, I don't like foot switches and didn't want to make more holes in the boat, I use a wireless remote that I find better than foot switches.


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[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

The drum on my VWC 1500 is why I bought it, as Jim said it's invaluable for other uses, I haven't had to yet, but that drum is what I believe will kedge me off when I go aground and run the Danforth out to the side with the dinghy.
I didn't install the foot switches, I don't like foot switches and didn't want to make more holes in the boat, I use a wireless remote that I find better than foot switches.


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None of my business, but I would want some sort of non-electronic backup to the wireless remote. If not foot switches, then some sort of more direct switching arrangement elsewhere. Loosing the use of the windlass at an awkward moment would be a pain!

Jim

[a64pilot]

Well there is the Manual up/ down switch in the cockpit, came as part of the kit, and the relay box is real accessible, all you have to do is jumper the center connection to one of the side ones, depending on if you want up or down if both the remote and manual switch were down.
As opposed to foot switches if I wanted a manual switch in the bow, I'd rather have a handheld wired remote.
I've had foot switches that I guess we're not well positioned and or didn't work well, I think they were actually an air bladder that used air pressure to operate a switch. You had to get on your hands and knees and push them, or your heel, but try balancing in any kind of swells, one foot on your heel.

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[Paul L]

The RC-10 is also available with the warping drum. Just installed one.

[Jim Cate]

Well there is the Manual up/ down switch in the cockpit, came as part of the kit

Well, that sounds OK! You hadn't mentioned that feature before... sounded like the remote was the only control.

Sorry for the confusion.



Jim

[gaucho]

Originally Posted by Paul L

The RC-10 is also available with the warping drum. Just installed one.

This is what has me confused. Why go with the VW1500 if I can do the RC-10 which:

a) has the same apparent features (including the warping drum)
b) it's cheaper
c) I can use chain AND rope rode
d) It's stainless steel, and it looks awesome

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by gaucho

This is what has me confused. Why go with the VW1500 if I can do the RC-10 which:

a) has the same apparent features (including the warping drum)
b) it's cheaper
c) I can use chain AND rope rode
d) It's stainless steel, and it looks awesome

If you can wait a year I let you know what I think of my new install.

[huhns]

I have no opinion about which windlass you need, but your calculations need to take into account the weight and windage of your boat. That is, a windlass is used (1) to lift the anchor and its rode out of the water (equal to the weight of the anchor and the weight of the rode, as you have calculated), (2) to break the anchor loose from the bottom, and most importantly (3) to haul the boat up to the point where the anchor can be lifted off the bottom. The effort needed for (3) depends on how strong the wind is blowing (widage: hull shape above the waterline) and how much current is running (displacement and hull shape below the waterline). Factor (3) can be mitigated by using the engine and sails to help the windlass.

Cheers,
Mike
Island Packet 380

[Paul L]

I don't think it is good practice to haul the boat forward using the windlass. Much better to use a shot of engine to start the boat going forward. Not an issue on light wind days.

[JOHNMARDALL]

Originally Posted by huhns

I have no opinion about which windlass you need, but your calculations need to take into account the weight and windage of your boat. That is, a windlass is used (1) to lift the anchor and its rode out of the water (equal to the weight of the anchor and the weight of the rode, as you have calculated), (2) to break the anchor loose from the bottom, and most importantly (3) to haul the boat up to the point where the anchor can be lifted off the bottom. The effort needed for (3) depends on how strong the wind is blowing (widage: hull shape above the waterline) and how much current is running (displacement and hull shape below the waterline). Factor (3) can be mitigated by using the engine and sails to help the windlass.

Cheers,
Mike
Island Packet 380

Sorry Mike, but as common as the practice is, using the windlass as a propulsion system was never the intention and if done often enough, will wreck the windlass. Please use the engine to drive up to the anchor location as you retrieve the rode, and then when the rode is straight up and down, let the motion of the boat break out the anchor. Similarly, when anchoring, once the anchor is set, take the load off the windlass gearbox with a chain stopper or snubber.

RC10 or VW? If you know you're always going to be using an all-chain rode, I suggest going with the VW with a warping drum. The rope chain gypsy on the RC10 is probably slightly less strong at grabbing and holding chain, but it's a small difference and as stated, gives the option of a spliced rope/chain rode.

Let me know if you need more information. and I'll put you in touch with a windlass Guru.

All the best

John Mardall
Vetus Maxwell Group.

[roverhi]

Another recommendation for vertical windlass with chain gypsy and rope drum. Ran aground and boat leaned over onto a large rock. Rowed out an anchor and used the rope drum to slew the bow around clear of the rock. Embarrassing night waiting for tide to come back in but no damage to boat because having the rope drum despite numerous wakes from commercial traffic.

[SailRedemption]

G,

Defender does sell the VWC2500, just got one from them. I chose it over the RC because I will be using all chain rode. I will have a splice on the end of it for emergency cutaway. This will be some sort of connecting link with the screw nut on it(hoping it will pass in the wildcat with ease). This will allow me to 1. Emergency cutaway or 2. Hook up a rope rode for even deeper water or more scope. Use the gypsyhead until the chain comes back, unhook the rope rode hook the chain back to the rope going into the chain locker, and power it back in.

This is theory now, I haven't installed the windlass yet but super excited to.

The few differences between them are the line speeds that I can see..

Here is the VWC2500 http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?...147&id=1896393

[SailRedemption]

Originally Posted by JOHNMARDALL

Sorry Mike, but as common as the practice is, using the windlass as a propulsion system was never the intention and if done often enough, will wreck the windlass. Please use the engine to drive up to the anchor location as you retrieve the rode, and then when the rode is straight up and down, let the motion of the boat break out the anchor. Similarly, when anchoring, once the anchor is set, take the load off the windlass gearbox with a chain stopper or snubber.

RC10 or VW? If you know you're always going to be using an all-chain rode, I suggest going with the VW with a warping drum. The rope chain gypsy on the RC10 is probably slightly less strong at grabbing and holding chain, but it's a small difference and as stated, gives the option of a spliced rope/chain rode.

Let me know if you need more information. and I'll put you in touch with a windlass Guru.

All the best

John Mardall
Vetus Maxwell Group.

John,
I already have the VWC2500, but I'd be interested in knowing the differences between that and the RC 12-10(or the RC series in general). I notice, at least on defenders site, the VWC just says cone clutch while the RC says double cone clutch. Is this a wording thing or actual?

I'm sure others would be grateful for any comparisons I the two or the notable differences in the models.

Regards,
Ronnie