Making your own anchor - who has done it?

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by noelex 77

This is an example of a Spade shank/fluke joint.The rest of the anchor was in reasonable condition with only slight surface rusting around the underside edges.

Nice photo. It really brings to awareness that material used should not be all about strength. In general, higher strength steels/SS's tend to have a higher propensity to corrode than lower strength ones due to the carbon content. As well as the welding issues involved. A hardened steel once welded will have a higher propensity to corrode at or near the weld joint also, unless the material is solution heat treated... which then will remove the hardening!
Maybe SS should be used more often as anchor material but the design needs to be done around the material. Of course Titanium would be perfect.... :>)

[nimblemotors]

Has anyone made an anchor out of fiberglass?

[evm1024]

One of the reasons that I was thinking about armor steel is that I work at a university that did research on cutters. That group was cutting 6" thick pieces of hard steel with some fancy plasma torches and water jets. Their goals were to limit the changes in the properties of the steel all the while having a fast cutting speed.

There is or was some 7/16" armor steel plate laying around that one might be able to get the parts for an anchor cut from... We are moving to a new campus so finding the plate may be a problem.

As was noted this is about making an anchor for yourself. Nothing that would warrant a suit to prevent competition.

Lastly, strength of steel once it exceeds the expected worst case (plus safety margins) loads is not about strenght for strength sake. It is about keeping the geometry of the anchor intact. It has been noted that if the shank to fluke angle changes then the fluke will start to rotate out of the seabed with each yank. Thus keeping the geometry intact causes a reduced likely hood of pulling out under surge conditions. Only testing will tell if this is a significant concern.

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by JonJo

Sorry - I'd already mentioned that welding was an issue, but Delancy did not think that sufficiently important to merit mention. Even Manson's 800 MPa steel needs careful welding, specific welding rods are demanded, temperatures are critical etc - in fact not a task contemplated by most welding shops (and who are willing to give guarantees).

I was simply checking that there was not another joke in the thread that I had missed

Jonathan

When shopping for a new generation Anchor, I found the MS to have the worst welds of any of them. I think they use MIG welding, as I could see traces of wire cold welded to the existing puddle.
I found your comment interesting about the 800MPa hardened anchor having holding it's number with galvanizing. Make sense. The process would anneal it. Thanx for that

[JonJo]

[QUOTE=noelex 77;1362828




Aluminium in many ways should be the ideal anchor material. The lower density enables the balance and toe weight to much better than with a steel anchor. This promises improved performance even before the possibility of utilising a larger blade area is considered. It can be sharpened like SS and should not corrode.

Unfortunately anchor manufacturers have chosen to adapt existing anchor designs sometimes with great results ( like the Fortress), but often with dismal failure (like the aluminium Spade)

It needs a manufacturer to design an anchor to utilise the lower density and higher strength/ weight ratio of aluminium from the ground up (married with lead where weight is needed). It certainly has the promise of a higher performing anchor that is easier on the winch, gives less weight on the bow and never needs re-galvanisng.[/QUOTE]

There is an interesting article in Practical Sailor on alloy anchors, do not recall the exact month, maybe September.

You will find that some exotic alloys are now being used with slightly thicker shanks - imparting strengths higher than anything we currently see in the same sized steel models.

I would agree that alloy is the way to go. Evidence suggests that weight is not the panacea once thought (just consider a Fortress - highest holding by weight) and with the better designs, and greater knowledge, it should be possible to fabricate an alloy anchor that is as strong as anything made from steel and have the same holding capacity - but at half the weight. Couple that half weight with a G7 (or G8) chain and you are starting to seriously change the the whole debate about ground tackle (for example smaller which means cheaper winches).

Jonathan

[nimblemotors]

I'm just curious, as a bit of search on fiberglass anchors, I find this place selling a 35lb Plow anchors for $170. Is this the 'Chinese' anchors some talk about? Because at those prices, why would anyone make their own??

Galvanized Steel, Norestar CQR/Plow Style Boat Anchor - Norestar -

[JonJo]

Originally Posted by nimblemotors

I'm just curious, as a bit of search on fiberglass anchors, I find this place selling a 35lb Plow anchors for $170. Is this the 'Chinese' anchors some talk about? Because at those prices, why would anyone make their own??

Galvanized Steel, Norestar CQR/Plow Style Boat Anchor - Norestar -

It does give some indication of the reasons for transfer of production to China. Drop forged CQRs are very expensive to make in the 'west' (hence the high cost of originals now) and welding plate is much, much cheaper.

As an example of Chinese manufacturing costs and local distribution margins - cannot fault the example. Just think - it is cheaper to make a Rocna, Delta or Mantus in China than the CQR shown (assuming the one shown is made properly).

Jonathan

[evm1024]

One of the very nice things about his thread is that we are not limited to existing anchor designs, materials or economics.

Some of us have made their own or at lease thought about making their own.

New materials (armor steel? Titanium?) allow us to think outside the limits manufacturing place on production.

I'm sure that traditionalists were aghast at the thought of a CQR or Danforth.

Changing a plow to a scoop brought in a revolution in holding power. And along with it a number of problems needing understanding and solutions.

[noelex 77]

Unfortunately anchor manufacturers also have to sell what they produce to stay in business . The cruising sailboat market is only small. We are incredibly fortunate that several cruising sailors that were dissatisfied with their anchors took the time to develop new models, which they have put into production

Here on CF I think we are finally turning the tide and the vast majority are convinced of the superiority of new generation anchors. Out in retail land I suspect it is a very different story.

Companies like Oyster still specify CQR's

[congo]

Re: Making your own anchor - who has done it?
Noelex wrote:

I don't think stainless steel is such a stupid anchor material for a long distance cruising boat. When you are anchoring full time, as I do, the life of the galvanising on a steel anchor is only in the order of three or four years. With the Heath and safety laws it is getting harder to find companies that will galvanise an anchor. With some anchors such as the Spade its impossible. Although the life of these anchors that cannot be re-galvanised can be extended with paint they are still an expensive proposition in terms of yearly cost for a cruising sailor

The drawbacks of reduced strength have been mentioned, but SS does have the advantages that the leading edge of the flukes can be made very sharp which significantly helps anchor performance (if this is done on a galvanised anchor the galvanising tends to wear quickly).

If the anchor is deformed many manufacturers will replace them. In reality problems are rare especially for cruising sailors that tend to upsize their anchors significantly.

Given the small contribution of the cost of raw material to the finished product SS anchors should be more reasonable cost wise. I don't want bling. Forget the polishing.

Aluminium in many ways should be the ideal anchor material. The lower density enables the balance and toe weight to much better than with a steel anchor. This promises improved performance even before the possibility of utilising a larger blade area is considered. It can be sharpened like SS and should not corrode.

Unfortunately anchor manufacturers have chosen to adapt existing anchor designs sometimes with great results ( like the Fortress), but often with dismal failure (like the aluminium Spade)

It needs a manufacturer to design an anchor to utilise the lower density and higher strength/ weight ratio of aluminium from the ground up (married with lead where weight is needed). It certainly has the promise of a higher performing anchor that is easier on the winch, gives less weight on the bow and never needs re-galvanisng.
__________________

Rex Wrote;

Well Noelex you are pretty much on the ball, for the last 18 months we have been experimenting re stainless toes on anchors, after much research finding a composite stainless with a mix that will weld and have the galvanizing successfully take to it we have done it, stainless toes are in all of the new production line of Excel anchors over the last 8 months, we are so proud of this as it is a first in production anchors and I believe with testing over the last twelve months we have perfected it.

Yes we have lodged a patent that will not be publicized for some time yet but it has been lodged, yes the stainless toes do not rust, they allow a much sharper leading edge compared to a galvanized one for the reasons you have mentioned, more will be learnt about our new developments at the next leading boat show.

Further many have mentioned regalvanising and the problem of lead, the Excel has a sealed cast toe so if and when galvanizing is required there is no re leading required.

Regards Rex.

CEO of Anchor Right Australia.

[JonJo]

Originally Posted by noelex 77

Unfortunately anchor manufacturers also have to sell what they produce to stay in business . The cruising sailboat market is only small. We are incredibly fortunate that several cruising sailors that were dissatisfied with their anchors took the time to develop new models, which they have put into production

Here on CF I think we are finally turning the tide and the vast majority are convinced of the superiority of new generation anchors. Out in retail land I suspect it is a very different story.

Companies like Oyster still specify CQR's

I totally agree with your first paragraph. Those that stick their necks out to develop enduring anchor designs need as much support as they can get.

I would not want to develop a reputation of being contrary

But a recent anchor poll suggest that for CF:

11% use a CQR
10% use a Delta
12% use a Bruce
6% use a Danforth
and
10% use something that does not seem to be defined as New Generation.

We have a little way to go to get to 'vast majority'

But getting there

[noelex 77]

That sounds like a great idea Rex.
It should reduce the frequency of re galvanisation as the rust begins at the leading edges and it introduces the possibility of sharp leading edges which make a great difference in hard and weedy substrates.

Some of the better steel boats do a similar thing with SS edges welded on to wear areas around fair leads, but I have never seen it in an anchor and its a great idea.

My only concern is of galvanic corrosion between the SS and the galvanised steel. The zinc galvanising is significantly more anodic than SS and therefore will be corroded. This is sometimes seen with SS shackles/swivels and galvanised chain, but here the electrical connection which is necessary for the corrosion to occur, tends to be poor.

The voltages are low, so it only takes a little bit of corroding, or debris on the joining surfaces to self limit the process. Welding SS to steel will provide a perfect electrical connection
between the SS and the zinc. It will stay that way.

Perfect electrical connection with metals that widely separated on the galvanic scale (SS and zinc), but are in close proximity (actually joined together) and used underwater needs some careful thought.

[congo]

Noelex I take all of your points seriously,

please understand we are not about to give away trade secrets but believe me your comments--concerns were very much taken into consideration, we have a money back guarantee, further a lot of research was given to what we believe we have perfected, yes to all I understand only time will tell.

Then again look at our reputation re our product, we don’t tell porkies,
If it’s good enough for the authorities to be O.K. with it then I am sure the end user will appreciate this breakthrough.

Any way when we officially release our new development more will be learnt about the process.

The Excels performance is second to none; I truly believe this adds another dimension.

Regards Rex.

CEO of Anchor Right Australia.

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by JonJo

We have a little way to go to get to 'vast majority'

I think we have a long way to go before the vast majority of CF members are using the anchors, but I think the majority now believe in their superiority. The cries of "snake oil" or "you don't know how to anchor" have gradually died down (perhaps we have beaten it out of them ). Although I understand there are still some that hold a contrary view.

In the Med, when I look at boats that are actually out and anchoring around me I have noticed and explosion in new generation anchors. Perhaps because of the hard sand and weed, together with some areas of strong wind the shortcomings of the older anchors are readily apparent

[Delancey]

Originally Posted by JonJo

There is an interesting article in Practical Sailor on alloy anchors, do not recall the exact month, maybe September.

You will find that some exotic alloys are now being used with slightly thicker shanks - imparting strengths higher than anything we currently see in the same sized steel models.

I would agree that alloy is the way to go. Evidence suggests that weight is not the panacea once thought (just consider a Fortress - highest holding by weight) and with the better designs, and greater knowledge, it should be possible to fabricate an alloy anchor that is as strong as anything made from steel and have the same holding capacity - but at half the weight. Couple that half weight with a G7 (or G8) chain and you are starting to seriously change the the whole debate about ground tackle (for example smaller which means cheaper winches).

Jonathan

Wow, you know I never really thought about it because I always considered the Fortress anchors a bit of a novelty, but aluminum is a great material to begin with so why not make a great anchor with it?

Anodizing imparts significant hardness to the surface and is electrically non-conductive. Aluminum is very versatile from a manufacturing standpoint in that it can be precisely cast as well as extruded in complex shapes.

This is great if you want to have something like an "I" section shank without drop forging. The flukes and connectors on the Fortress are extrusions for example. Sharp points on that anchor BTW.

Gets me thinking.....