How'd You Pick Your Anchor ?

[Sabbatical II]

Originally Posted by sailingaway221

For me I fell in love with my oversized Rocna... has not failed me yet..... yet...... yet..... who's a good anchor. I find if you talk to them they are better behaved, also I tip my anchor after every goon nights sleep!

Hi sailingaway221

Do you mind telling us what size Rocna you have and what is the displacement and length of your boat, just for a bit of perspective?

Thanks, Greg

[marujo.sortudo]

Like so many, I've kept the anchors that came with my 32' 16,000# boat:

32#, 45#, and 75# Yachtsmans (2 working + 1 storm)
15# Northill (stern)

She also has a convenient place to store a Danforth, which she used to carry for soft/soupy mud which seems an excellent idea. I might get a Fortress instead.

She was already cruised pretty extensively with these anchors with good results and that's good enough for me.

So many folks seem to make a big deal about anchor technology. Fact is, for 2,000 years or so, anchors didn't change that much and most boats stayed anchored safely the vast majority of the time. All ground tackle will fail someday and being prepared by using anchor alarms and, when appropriate, an anchor watch, is prudent. Up here in Maine, we have a variety of bottom types and many experienced sailors still use some kind of fisherman anchor (although, all anchor types are represented in good numbers.) If you have ground tackle that is undersized or inappropriate for your frequented anchorages, that would seem a good reason to change. As the saying goes, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

I'm happy with my anchor types because they set easily, are compatible with a wide variety of bottom types, work well at lesser scopes, and look good and appropriate with my wooden boat with the two working anchors on either side of the bowsprit. Of course, like all anchor types, they have their downsides and a prudent skipper is aware of the weaknesses of his ground tackle.

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by marujo.sortudo

So many folks seem to make a big deal about anchor technology. Fact is, for 2,000 years or so, anchors didn't change that much and most boats stayed anchored safely the vast majority of the time.

I have seen a lot boats damagaged when dragging their anchor.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by bewitched

This is where we differ - I would never trust my anchor (or any anchor) to be 100% reliable. I would expect it to drag at some point.

So I habitually set an anchor alarm to wake me up when it does drag - which to my mind is an inevitability, regardless of anchor type.

All anchors drag, some may drag less than others of a given size with a given bottom type and so may be more suitable for a given area. But if your boat came with X type anchor and it works better than 99% of the time. Why change it? All you will be gaining is a very small fraction of a percent in performance.

I think this is why you see so many older designs on some boats that are obviously cruised extensively. Despite all the negative reviews they have, they're actually not all that bad.

I think this is a wise comment.

No anchor is magic, and so logically any better anchor is only a relative and incremental improvement over any less better anchor. Despite what the vendors might like you to believe. So naturally the skill of the sailor never becomes irrelevant, nor the quality of the bottom, the nastiness of the weather, and so forth. Some of us are willing to pay for that incremental and relative improvement in the odds; others don't feel the need. Nothing wrong with that.

I have personally never seen anything like 99% success with any anchor (other than maybe our previous Spade). Maybe I'm unlucky or unskillful, but almost all of my frightening or dangerous experiences cruising over the years have been related to anchoring. So I put buying a much bigger and much better anchor at the top of my shopping list for my new boat, ahead of downwind sails, fixing the radar, better battery charger, etc., etc. Other people may have other priorities.

And certainly I would never go to sleep at anchor without an anchor alarm set, even in calm conditions on a perfect bottom. No matter what kind of anchor I've got down. I would never just throw it in the water without setting it carefully and then backing down hard on it, then putting a good snubber on it plus another safety line. And even then (!), I never sleep that soundly at anchor -- always one eye and/or ear open.

I have high hopes for my giant Rocna on 100 meters of chain, but I don't expect magic from it. Indeed, it has set with difficulty in approximately 15% of the small sample of attempts so far. So if you've got a large CQR which has worked well for you over the years, well then of course -- why fix what ain't broke? Like someone said, in ten more years, something still better will come out, and today's Rocnas and Mansons will become tomorrow's CQR or Bruce. So what? That's normal technological progress. I don't think anchoring a cruising boat will ever be 100% safe or foolproof.

[Hiracer]

Originally Posted by bewitched

This is where we differ - I would never trust my anchor (or any anchor) to be 100% reliable. I would expect it to drag at some point.

Let's not put words in my mouth. I never said I expect an anchor to work 100% of the time. Anybody with any experience knows anchoring is not failsafe.

Sure, no anchor is immune from dragging. But I do not expect it to drag when conditions are near perfect. I can accept dragging in marginal conditions, but not in perfect conditions.

If an anchor dragged in good conditions, I can think of no reason to keep it.

Never before, or since, have I had an anchor drag in good conditions. It just doesn't happen. Ever--except that one time.

Maybe our experiences are different, thereby giving rise to different expectations.

At a conceptual level I realize anything can happen at anchor, and I act and plan accordingly. Expectation is not to be equated with trust.

But at an experiential level I get dragging only when I suspect it might happen. I never get dragging when I know conditions are good.

[Hiracer]

The title of this thread is, "How'd You Pick Your Anchor?"

Answer: I've used six anchor types: CQR, fake Bruce, Fortress, a french design I can't recall, the Max and SuperMax, and the Spade. I picked the Spade and Fortress based on my exeriences and needs.

I have on board, two Spades, a 44# on the bow and a 66# in the lazerrette, and two FX-37s, one near the stern and the other stowed broken down in that pretty red bag they sell.

[steve_hendry]

Re: anchors that "always" hold, note the word under the anchor in this picture:

Rhode Island State Flag

[rebel heart]

I went with a Bruce because some people told me it was great. Then I switched to a CQR because everyone told me it was great. The best reports I hear now are from the Rocnas and Mason Supremes, the Masons being 1/2 the cost of the Rocna and no one really seems to be able to spot much of a difference without getting excessively anal.

Anchors are so dependent on rode, bottom conditions, and technique, it's hard to compare. Even taking them out and doing truck tests on the beach isn't going to match up to reality.

I'm switching out to a Mason Supreme next because I gave my friend my CQR. Long story.

Best thing you can use for anchoring is scuba gear to check it out. Freediving 30-40' isn't going to happen for 99% of the population.

[sck5]

My 33 ft 13000 lb. boat came with a cqr and an oversized danforth. the danforth is fine in Chesapeake bay but we are heading south to the caribbean and later the bahamas on the way home and will be anchoring out a lot. I HATE anchor watch and I LOVE to sleep. So I read all of the literature and looked at all of the tests and went and got a Rocna 20. I also have a Guardian (which is a basically a fortress set only for the sand bottom angle) as a third backup anchor but so far it has stayed in the locker. (really doesnt take up much room at all)

The Rocna is great. It grabs instantly and every time. I would do it again in a snap. There is just no comparison with the cqr and even the danforth doesnt do any better in chesapeake mud - in fact it is slightly worse because it is somewhat harder to set on occasion depending how it hits the bottom.

[Hiracer]

Originally Posted by steve_hendry

Re: anchors that "always" hold, note the word under the anchor in this picture:

Rhode Island State Flag

Note the anchor.

(Could not resist.)

[Hiracer]

Originally Posted by rebel heart

no one really seems to be able to spot much of a difference without getting excessively anal.

That would be me.

The main difference between those two anchors, besides price, is the tip weight. How important tipweight is depends on conditions. The worse the conditions, the more important it becomes.

PS, Yes, I have SCUBA dived areas in Alaska where I have anchored but, alas, not while somebody was anchored. It was interesting to see what the bottom looked like: mud with a bunch of basketball sized boulders perfect for the scoop type anchors to scoop up. That note-to-self did have some impact on subsequent anchor purchases.

Check that: I did once dive my little 15# fake Bruce because it wouldn't set in sand so we buried it instead. That was the first and last time I ever used it.

The amazing thing about that dive was when I picked up the anchor to bury it there was no lateral pull on the chain. 15' of light weight chain was holding a 19' skiff in whitecap conditions, something I never expected. I could see the skiff swimming in the wind above me (15 feet of water) yet there was no lateral pull on the anchor end of the chain. Nylon rode with 15' of 1/4 inch chain. Skiff was a 19' Hewescraft with dodger and 75 hp Yamaha and 15 hp backup. Not an overly heavy set up but not light either. I really expected there to be more forces on the groundtackle. It was strange holding the anchor while looking over to see the boat swimming around like mad. Not what I expected at all.

[Hiracer]

Originally Posted by bewitched

It's not the end of the world if an anchor drags every now and then.

I wasn't disagreeing with the idea that anchors drag now and then.

I was disagreeing the idea that it's no big deal if they drag. Sometimes it's no big deal, but sometimes it is--as in loss of the boat.

The whole reason why these anchoring threads go on endlessly is because so much is riding on the anchor staying stuck.

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by rebel heart

The best reports I hear now are from the Rocnas and Mason Supremes, the Masons being 1/2 the cost of the Rocna and no one really seems to be able to spot much of a difference without getting excessively anal.

A quick Internet search showed 55 - 60 lb anchors from Manson and Rocna to both be about $650. If you can find a 60 lb Manson Supreme for less than $400 I'll buy it.

I was so happy with my Rocna 25 (55 lb) as primary I bought a second one as secondary.

[sck5]

yeah, like a good night's sleep. but truly you are right, it amazes me that people would cheap out on the first line of insurance against losing your boat.

[Hiracer]

Originally Posted by sck5

yeah, like a good night's sleep. but truly you are right, it amazes me that people would cheap out on the first line of insurance against losing your boat.

Well yes, but like I said earlier, the older designs still work. If your anchoring conditions are pretty benign as a rule, then I think the older designs are perfectly acceptable.

There are lots of areas around here with heavy mud. ANY anchor is going to work--and work well. If that's all you see, why spend the money?

It's when you start anchoring in places where you don't know what conditions will be like or, worse yet, you know are going to be lousy, and then all in a sudden the wallet readily opens up.

All it takes is coming close a few times to losing your boat (and to add an exponent try risking your boat in remote areas where maybe it's not just the boat at risk) and you start thinking about anchor gear totally differently.

* * *

And I don't necessarily know about them anchor alarms either. In the winter I do some solo sailing following by hiking on or kayaking around the Islands. Lot's a good an alarm is gonna do me. I need something that just flat out works as good as it can get. That would be all chain, new generation anchor, the skill to use it, but MOST IMPORTANT knowing the bottom is good. Bottom trumps everthing. Skill is second. Anchor and rode afer all that.

Of course, settled fair weather figures in all that too.