Damaged anchor?

[Mickeyrouse]

Originally Posted by Panope

Mickeyrouse, could you please clarify which part of your anchor is bending? When you say "crown", I think you might be meaning to say "stock".

The old Danforth anchors were originally marketed as “ stockless” anchors. Since, in rough appearance and profile at least, the Fortress and their kind resemble a Danforth, I am using Danforth’s terminology. I realize that gives my age away. Maintaining that (dated?) convention of nomenclature, those hoary dudes referenced the “ crown” as that part which the bases of the flukes are welded to. Since no part of a Fortress is welded, it is that round rod (3/4” dia) prox 18” long or so, slotted to allow the flukes to fit into what I call a “crown”. It receives the flukes which are maintained by a couple of looped tabs retained by one 1/4” machine bolt on each side. Forgive my impurity of precision- I am impure in countless other ways besides. Correct nomenclature or not, the good Fortress folks seem to understand whenever I need a new, un-bent one..

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by Mickeyrouse

... Maintaining that (dated?) convention of nomenclature, those hoary dudes referenced the “ crown” as that part which the bases of the flukes are welded to. Since no part of a Fortress is welded, it is that round rod (3/4” dia) prox 18” long or so, slotted to allow the flukes to fit into what I call a “crown”. It receives the flukes which are maintained by a couple of looped tabs retained by one 1/4” machine bolt on each side. Forgive my impurity of precision- I am impure in countless other ways besides. Correct nomenclature or not, the good Fortress folks seem to understand whenever I need a new, un-bent one..

Perhaps, it's been your "stock" that bends. ➥ https://fortressanchors.com/anchors/...anchors/parts/

[rognvald]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

?? The Sundeer 64’s sold new for under $500k.

You have the wrong boat in mind, probably an Oyster, HR or Contest etc.

Hi, Jedi,
That's true but in today's world a new Hunter 50 is just shy of $500K. What would a new Sundeer 64 cost?
Rognvald

[lifeofreilly57]

Depends on the quality and application. I have a Bruce Forged anchor as my main, with a couple others for more specialized use.
Over the years I've seen a number of Bruce copies that were cast, not forged, those anchors were more prone to deforming since they didn't have the same structural strength. Same goes for many other copies and cheap anchors I've come across over the years.
In many cases I see anchors that are undersized for the application, fine for day cruising to your local destination, but not suited for long term use in heavier applications. Proper sizing, proper application, and buying a quality anchor makes a difference.
Our Bruce never let us down while cruising, in some extreme weather. I'm not advertising for Bruce anchors but just pointing out the difference in buying a quality product in general. There are many high quality anchors out there these days, for a multitude of applications, just choose wisely, I've seen too many cheap anchors fail and deform. Most anchors I've seen sold with new boats were usually a joke, suited for day cruising destinations only, as long as you were returning to the dock at sunset they're fine but I wouldn't bet my life on them.
Ours is a 40,000lb boat, which we've been through a number of tropical storms with, and haven't had an issue. If buying today I might procure a different anchor since some newer designs are always improving, but I'd still look for a proven product.
We lived on the anchor, only using moorings when forced to, since I don't trust most moorings in other countries. We also carry 350' of chain, with an additional 250' of 1' rode that can be added to the existing chain if needed.
Proper gear doesn't end with the anchor.

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by Panope

Again, no right or wrong answer here. My hope is that people use the anchor data that I present to help make their own decisions.

I did, it cost me £70 to sell a roll bar Rocna and buy a new Vulcan. I haven't looked back and consider the £70 money well spent.

Thank you.

Pete

[SailingHarmonie]

Virtually every Bügel anchor I have seen that has received significant use has a bent fluke. It is particularly vulnerable to this because the fluke is simply a flat plate, and gains no stiffness from its shape.

[Kettlewell]

Virtually every Bügel anchor I have seen that has received significant use has a bent fluke.

I think this is a Bugel seen in Panama, but it seems to have survived relatively unscathed. However, with that fat plate I wonder how well it digs in?

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by rognvald

Hi, Jedi,
That's true but in today's world a new Hunter 50 is just shy of $500K. What would a new Sundeer 64 cost?
Rognvald

Unfortunately they don’t sell them anymore but the ones that come on the market are mostly still under $500k

[rognvald]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Unfortunately they don’t sell them anymore but the ones that come on the market are mostly still under $500k

Hi, Jedi,
I don't think I'll find one at a garage sale . . . or for sale at Salvation Army!!
Beautiful boat! Rognvald

[Jim Cate]

Depends on the quality and application. I have a Bruce Forged anchor as my main, with a couple others for more specialized use.
Over the years I've seen a number of Bruce copies that were cast, not forged, those anchors were more prone to deforming since they didn't have the same structural strength.

The original Bruce anchor was not forged... it too was cast, but of a higher quality steel and with post casting heat treatment. The one that I bought in around 1988 was made in Belgium and was clearly a casting, not a forging.


Jim

[Kettlewell]

The original Bruce anchor was not forged... it too was cast, but of a higher quality steel and with post casting heat treatment.

Even if you disagree with some of Peter Smith's pronouncements, he does have useful information on his website. He declares the original Bruce as cast:

The design is cast as a single piece, lending it to inferior production processes which undercut the high quality heat treated casting used originally by Bruce Anchor Co. Today, the genuine Bruce is no longer produced, and only poor quality copies remain available.

https://www.petersmith.net.nz/boat-a...on-anchors.php

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by rognvald

Hi, Jedi,
I don't think I'll find one at a garage sale . . . or for sale at Salvation Army!!
Beautiful boat! Rognvald

Same builder as yours!

[SailingHarmonie]

Originally Posted by Kettlewell

I think this is a Bugel seen in Panama, but it seems to have survived relatively unscathed. However, with that fat plate I wonder how well it digs in?

That looks like a homemade Bügel. This was (AFAIK) the first of the roll bar anchors, and it was a major step forward in anchor design when it was introduced. It was never a huge commercial success because anybody who could cut steel plate, weld, and bend tubing could make one for next to nothing. The supplier was left selling only to people (or boat builders) who prioritized expensive (i.e. profitable) shiny stainless steel over actual performance.

It is a nice anchor, and it sets well. Because the fluke has to be REALLY thick to resist bending, the result is a relatively low surface area per unit weight, so the holding power is lower per weight. If you were to size it based on surface area instead of weight, I’ll bet it would still be a serious competitor to any other design.

I have to give kudos to the designer of this anchor. They basically opened the door to the current generation of modern anchors. Once people realized that significant improvements could be had over the CQR and Bruce designs, a lot of innovation followed, and we have all benefited.

[SailingHarmonie]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Unfortunately they don’t sell them anymore but the ones that come on the market are mostly still under $500k

A Sundeer 64 built in 2024 would be priced at WELL over $1m, closer to $2M. And that is assuming a build quality of a Group Beneteau boat.

A custom on-off which is closer to the market the Sundeers were aimed at would command a significantly higher price.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by SailingHarmonie

A Sundeer 64 built in 2024 would be priced at WELL over $1m, closer to $2M. And that is assuming a build quality of a Group Beneteau boat.
A custom on-off which is closer to the market the Sundeers were aimed at would command a significantly higher price.

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Unfortunately they don’t sell them anymore but the ones that come on the market are mostly still under $500k

1994 Sundeer 64: US$375,000 ➥ https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/199...er-64-8392422/

According to: https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/sundeer-64/
There were only 10 Built, bteween 1993 ➛ 1965