Anchor Balls

[Pete7]

And I was being somewhat pedantic

However, having just paid £8 for a new anchor ball, it's actually two flat plastic circles which interlock at 90 degrees, it looks like there is a good business opportunity in the US to sell these.

Ours lives on top of the anchor chain with a couple of lengths of string as a reminder to hoist it once the anchor is set.

Pete

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by Pete7

And I was being somewhat pedantic

However, having just paid £8 for a new anchor ball, it's actually two flat plastic circles which interlock at 90 degrees, it looks like there is a good business opportunity in the US to sell these.

Ours lives on top of the anchor chain with a couple of lengths of string as a reminder to hoist it once the anchor is set.

Pete

Those same anchor balls are available in the US, at least to order online. Your description sounds exactly like the one I have and use.

[SailingHarmonie]

Originally Posted by wyb2

Quote:
Originally Posted by requiem View Post
Rule 20 clarifies that the Rules concerning shapes shall be complied with by day, and the Rules concerning lights shall be complied with from sunset to sunrise and when otherwise necessary (e.g. reduced visibility).

One could make a technical argument that "shape or light" implies a free choice, but I would be extremely surprised to find any official interpretation that does not consider it driven by the terms of Rule 20.
Thank you, this is the clarification I couldn't find. I was looking at this PDF on the USCG website (https://www.navcen.uscg.gov/sites/de...s/navrules.pdf), I had searched for "dayshape" and "ball" and wasn't finding it. I needed to look for just "shape".

Funny how many people will respond to the question of "where does it say that?" with "It says so!"

What's even funnier is how some people can make up an absolutely silly explanation that makes no logical sense at all and then demand that it be disproven.

[BlueH2Obound]

Originally Posted by BlueH2Obound

Here's one on Amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06XYS1R7V..._dp&th=1&psc=1

It's only 13.8", so per colregs, only suitable for a boat 37.5' or shorter. It would work for your boat!

Just for reference, a 50' boat would require an anchor ball at 18" or thereabouts.

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Where did you get that set of dimensions? The rule says:

From Colregs Annex 1

§ 84.11 Shapes
(a) Shapes shall be black and of the following sizes:
(1) A ball shall have a diameter of not less than 0.6 meter;
(2) A cone shall have a base diameter of not less than 0.6 meter and a
height equal to its diameter;
(3) A diamond shape shall consist of two cones (as defined in
Paragraph (a)(2) of this section) having a common base.
(b) The vertical distance between shapes shall be at least 1.5 meter.
(c) In a vessel of less than 20 meters in length shapes of lesser dimensions
but commensurate with the size of the vessel may be used and the
distance apart may be correspondingly reduced.

So, if a 1000 foot tanker can use a 0.6m diameter ball seems that a 50 foot yacht could use one 50/1000 the size...reduced proportionally by length. Now, this is kinda silly, but I don't see w here a basketball sized one (as we use) does not meet the rule. It is certainly visible at reasonable distances and the rule is not specific about the reduction in size.

Jim

Basic trig. 20 meter and larger vessels require a 0.6m (roughly 24") sized ball. paragraph (3)(c) states "of lesser dimensions but commensurate with the size of the vessel may be used". so a ball diameter of 13.8" diameter would be acceptable for a boat with a length of up to

Using 13.8" ball, which I provided the link for, since it is smaller than the 20 meter (65.62') boat requiring a 0.6m (24" ball), when you do the trig, you come up with a commensurate boat size of no larger than 37.5 feet

[wyb2]

Originally Posted by SailingHarmonie

What's even funnier is how some people can make up an absolutely silly explanation that makes no logical sense at all and then demand that it be disproven.

Your quote is missing some syntax that separates what I said vs what requiem said.

I don’t think I offered any explanation at all. I just wasn’t seeing where the requirement was actually stated. requiem pointed me to rule 20. Problem solved.

I stand by my confusion as to why people respond to ‘where does it say that?’ with something to the effect of ‘it says so’ or ‘that’s the way it is’. If my question is dumb, and you don’t have time to answer dumb questions, you can just ignore it.

[Hartleyg]

BlueH2Obound said: "Basic trig. 20 meter and larger vessels require a 0.6m (roughly 24") sized ball. paragraph (3)(c) states "of lesser dimensions but commensurate with the size of the vessel may be used". so a ball diameter of 13.8" diameter would be acceptable for a boat with a length of up to
Using 13.8" ball, which I provided the link for, since it is smaller than the 20 meter (65.62') boat requiring a 0.6m (24" ball), when you do the trig, you come up with a commensurate boat size of no larger than 37.5 feet "


You've made two assumptions here - one, that "commensurate" means "linearly proportional" and; that the scale goes to zero length - that is, that only at zero length is a boat excused from the shape requirement because their ball size would be zero.
The first assumption might seem logical (if unstated) but the second one is provably incorrect - sub-paragraph e) of Rule 30 says: "A vessel of less than 7 meters in length, when at anchor, not in or near a narrow channel, fairway, anchorage, or where other vessels normally navigate, shall not be required to exhibit the lights or shape prescribed in paragraphs (a) and (b) of this Rule.



So perhaps the proportionality is from 20 meters (.6M ball) to 7 meters (0M ball), which would make his 13.8" (.35 M) ball good up to a 14.58 meter (47.83') boat.
That still doesn't explain why Plastimo says their 11.8" ball is good up to a 15 meter boat.


Personally, I think we've beaten this subject to death


Hartley
S/V Atsa

[DougM]

Interesting thread to read, I really enjoy hearing the variety of opinions expressed on this forum.

To add my experience to the discussion, never in my 3 decades of sailing have I seen an anchor ball on a boat in atlantic canada or the northeastern US. Im definitely not saying they don't get used, just that i have never seen one used. Nor do I own or use an anchor ball.

Listening to what has been said in this thread, I still believe displaying a round black ball while on a pleasure boat at anchor is of extremely little practical use in the context of the 21st century. I've never felt it would help me, nor anyone else who is properly operating their boat, navigate better. And there is about zero possibility a drunken jet ski or speed boat operator, or inattentive pleasure boater or commercial fisherman on autopilot, would notice a dayshape if he can't see the boat. I dont think any of us who don't use them are actually comprising safety.

please note that i feel the opposite of anchor lights in sight line (although the ones at the mast top like mine are obviously a lot less effective).

But there are other reasons to follow rules, and the thread really did make me think. Should i change my ways and buy/use an anchor ball?

The view 'do it because the rules say you should' has been well reqpresented. One may get a ticket. The suggestion was made that we face possible serious consequences for not doing so should our boat be struck while at anchor unless a dayshape was displayed. The example was presented of an australian attempt to prosecute boat owners who fatally blocked passage of jet ski and who narrowly escaped prison because they displayed an anchor ball. yup, that is worth considering. That's certainly a fair view, and makes me think.

But then i think of all the cases of wrongful conviction that i've read about. happens way too often. An non boating example got a huge amount of press when i lived in Ontario canada in the early 90s - a guy named guy paul morin (sp??) was wrongfully convicted of child rape and murder and spent 10 years in prison before being released due to DNA evidence. In the public inquiry, it turned out the cops targeted him and decided to 'build a case' because a) he was a neighbour and b) he played the clarinet. Disturbing (im a musician ) but for me, not a reason to give up an instrument nor move away from neighbours. So, back to boating, a near-wrongful-conviction in australia from a jet ski collision with an anchored boat wont alter my behaviour on its own.

Finally, it also made me think about COLREGS and how many parts of it are just not followed (in my part of the world) by pleasure, commercial, and fishing boats. hearing watch, speed vs conditions, sound signals, dayshapes while motorsailing, towing, constrained in narrow dredged channels, ... Canadian colregs - 6nm masthead lights, crossing the Grand Banks north of 43 while crossing the atlantic ... probably lots more examples of things that are largely ignored. Could be very upsetting to those who believe in following all rules.

[Kettlewell]

Finally, it also made me think about COLREGS and how many parts of it are just not followed (in my part of the world) by pleasure, commercial, and fishing boats. hearing watch, speed vs conditions, sound signals, dayshapes while motorsailing, towing, constrained in narrow dredged channels, ... Canadian colregs - 6nm masthead lights, crossing the Grand Banks north of 43 while crossing the atlantic ... probably lots more examples of things that are largely ignored. Could be very upsetting to those who believe in following all rules.

Commercial vessels and the Coast Guard break the rules all the time. I was nearly run down by an ocean going tug towing a barge on a long stern tow in Buzzards Bay in zero visibility not making any sound signals. Commercial fishing draggers just hard mount the double-cone day shape and leave it up no matter what they're doing. Has anyone ever heard a lobster boat give a sound signal in dense fog?

[noelex 77]

What about this super yacht that was next to us in Scotland. Anchored or underway? .

[JPA Cate]

Interesting picture, noelex.

I see a tiny anchor ball and a huge cone! What on earth? Is the "cone" a tent for rain shelter? Its proportions seem too squat for a motoring cone....?

Ann

[mako]

"However, having just paid £8 for a new anchor ball, it's actually two flat plastic circles which interlock at 90 degrees, it looks like there is a good business opportunity in the US to sell these."

I bought mine online in the US and brought it back with me to the Persian Gulf. I used it on my panga. Pretty much zero recreational boaters in that area even know that laws exist for the operation of small boats.

Only the tug boats in the harbor displayed day shapes, and I did it because it makes me feel good to act in a professional manner.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Kettlewell

Many (most?) anchorages in the USA are not "Special Anchorages," so if you fly an anchor ball you should also make a sound signal every 2 minutes to be in compliance! Just curious, how many anchor balls do you see in say the Med, Australia, or the Caribbean?

No, you are confused. Sound signals are only required IN RESTRICTED VISIBILITY, i.e. in a fog.



I sure as hell give the required sound signals in a fog. They can save your life. My VHF radio set is connected to a loudhailer which has programmable fog signals as I'm sure a lot of the rest of you do, too.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Pete7

. . . However, having just paid £8 for a new anchor ball, it's actually two flat plastic circles which interlock at 90 degrees, it looks like there is a good business opportunity in the US to sell these.. . .

There is no problem finding anchor balls in the U.S.:

https://www.westmarine.com/anchor-balls/

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

Interesting picture, noelex.

I see a tiny anchor ball and a huge cone! What on earth? Is the "cone" a tent for rain shelter? Its proportions seem too squat for a motoring cone....?

Ann

Yep, the "cone" is just a rain shelter for guests on the foredeck.

[MicHughV]

It's a fact that in the US most anyone can buy any boat they want for any reason as long as they have the coin to do so. No licensing, studying or practical experience or otherwise required.
It would be a fair guess to say that many boaters barely know how to handle their boat never mind knowing Colregs rules.