Anchor Balls

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

It's a fact that in the US most anyone can buy any boat they want for any reason as long as they have the coin to do so. No licensing, studying or practical experience or otherwise required.
It would be a fair guess to say that many boaters barely know how to handle their boat never mind knowing Colregs rules.

accurate

[Kettlewell]

No, you are confused. Sound signals are only required IN RESTRICTED VISIBILITY, i.e. in a fog.

And, when at anchor in restricted visibility, which in New England is frequently. I have never heard a vessel sounding the bell when anchored in the fog. How many commercial vessels do this?

(g) A vessel at anchor shall at intervals of not more than 1 minute ring the bell rapidly for about 5 seconds. In a vessel of 100 meters or more in length the bell shall be sounded in the forepart of the vessel and immediately after the ringing of the bell the gong shall be sounded rapidly for about 5 seconds in the after part of the vessel. A vessel at anchor may in addition sound three blasts in succession, namely, one short, one prolonged and one short blast, to give warning of her position and of the possibility of collision to an approaching vessel.

(h) A vessel aground shall give the bell signal and if required the gong signal prescribed in paragraph (g) of this Rule and shall, in addition, give three separate and distinct strokes on the bell immediately before and after the rapid ringing of the bell. A vessel aground may in addition sound an appropriate whistle signal.

(i) A vessel of 12 meters or more but less than 20 meters in length shall not be obliged to give the bell signals prescribed in paragraphs (g) and (h) of this Rule. However, if she does not, she shall make some other efficient sound signal at intervals of not more than 2 minutes.

(j) A vessel of less than 12 meters in length shall not be obliged to give the above-mentioned signals but, if she does not, shall make some other efficient sound signal at intervals of not more than 2 minutes.

[DougM]

I'm trying to think of a time when i've heard regular fog signals from another vessel around here. But it probably makes little difference, as i've never seen anyone outside keeping a proper hearing watch. You can't really hear sounds inside, say, the cabin of a lobster boat with 250 HP of diesel pounding away 10 or 15 feet behind you. Rule 5 - '... maintain a proper look-out by sight and hearing ...'. Seems you'd have to be outside, up on the bow maybe. Cant imagine you can hear fog signals from a small boat on the bridge of a tanker or bulk carrier from in the cabin either, nor have i ever seen someone on deck.

[Chotu]

Agreed. The rules are pretty stupid for small boats including the day shapes.

small boats can’t even display the proper lights for various situations.

no one is listening to the anchorage to make sure boats are ringing bells and if they did, it would be really confusing because you might think boats were underway

and day shapes? just as ridiculous but getting popular thanks to the inter webs.

[SailingHarmonie]

Originally Posted by Chotu

Agreed. The rules are pretty stupid for small boats including the day shapes.

small boats can’t even display the proper lights for various situations.

no one is listening to the anchorage to make sure boats are ringing bells and if they did, it would be really confusing because you might think boats were underway

and day shapes? just as ridiculous but getting popular thanks to the inter webs.

The problem is that since the rules are never actually obeyed, you can't trust anybody to be doing what you expect based on the rules. Like on the road. You can NEVER trust a car that has no turn signal on to ACTUALLY not be turning. By your logic, that means that all turn signal rules are ridiculous.

Oh yes, and ringing bells NEVER mean a boat is underway...

So much misinformation... Sound signals at anchor are only required in reduced visibility AND if you are anchored in a fairway. Kind of makes sense, no??? But instead people decide that the rules are stupid, and therefore justify ignoring them always and forever.

I'll keep putting up my anchor ball, thank you.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by SailingHarmonie

The problem is that since the rules are never actually obeyed, you can't trust anybody to be doing what you expect based on the rules. Like on the road. You can NEVER trust a car that has no turn signal on to ACTUALLY not be turning. By your logic, that means that all turn signal rules are ridiculous.

Oh yes, and ringing bells NEVER mean a boat is underway...

So much misinformation... Sound signals at anchor are only required in reduced visibility AND if you are anchored in a fairway. Kind of makes sense, no??? But instead people decide that the rules are stupid, and therefore justify ignoring them always and forever.

I'll keep putting up my anchor ball, thank you.

you know, I was thinking about that with the bells after I posted but never went back to change it. I said a boat underway and what I meant was a marker. A gong.

that makes a lot of sense however to only have the sound signals in the fairway. You should not even be anchored in the fairway. I would never anchor in a fairway in good conditions nevermind restricted invisibility. that’s a pretty unique situation and one that a boat should never be in unless there was a mechanical failure.

it’s interesting that you mention vehicles and blinkers. It’s also true. However, look at how they drive in Asia. That’s kind of how we do boats in the United States. People just feel their way. And it works. There aren’t many collisions. collisions we have are typically drunk or at night type of things. People slamming into day marks at night. Drunk and slamming into other boats in the middle of the day. It is more what happens. not misinterpretation of colregs

[wsmurdoch]

Here we are in the Bahamas during the Family Island Regatta with the anchor ball on the staysail stay. It was a great view of the races. Some came close enough that we could have handed them a cold beer. And oh, the law may be an ass, but it is still the law. Next time I'll push it a little higher up the stay.

[RaymondR]

You are passing down a stream with the tide behind you and come across another boat which may appear, or may not appear, to be coming upstream.

Anchor ball is up on approaching boat, pass either side.

Anchor ball is not up on approaching boat, pass red to red.

[bergius]

Originally Posted by DougM

And there is about zero possibility a drunken jet ski or speed boat operator, or inattentive pleasure boater or commercial fisherman on autopilot, would notice a dayshape if he can't see the boat.

Sure, unlike anchor light, the anchor day shape won’t help people to see a boat that they wouldn’t see otherwise. That’s not what the day shapes are for. Instead, it tells what rules apply to that particular vessel. A properly deployed anchor ball is clear and visible from a lot further away than the anchor chain, and makes it clear that a boat is at anchor and not for instance motoring slowly.

Now, it would be nice if this status was also available via AIS, giving it a lot further range than what’s available visually. Sadly that’s only available on Class A AIS.

I’m happy to have so far sailed in places where there is either a mandatory licensing regime (like there is in Germany), or the culture makes people generally adhere to the rules of the road (for example in Sweden and Finland). Of course you still occasionally see (motor)boaters that are convinced rules don’t apply to them. These people are hazards to everybody around them, and are luckily a small minority.



We always deploy the anchor ball. It’s not a big deal to do along all the other anchoring routines - activating anchor watch, hoisting our deployable solar panels, setting up the snubber etc. And it does make the boat safer, by making it clear to others that we’re not going to give way.

We also for the first time had to do the fog horn routine last summer. After having to blow the horn every two minutes for a full six hour watch we’ve now ordered a loud hailer to automate this!

[carstenb]

I guess the next question is how many have an inverted triangle to show thye are motorsailing

Second - how many have a fog horn?

We have all three ball, triangle, horn and use them

[Chotu]

right? If you have the anchor ball, by the same logic, you definitely have to have the inverted cone when you motor. It’s a slippery slope.

by the same logic as well, a boat should be able to display all the lights required of it. Everyone should get proper lights as well. Red over white over red, etc.

in case you go aground, you need to be able to display white over red over red over white.

what if you are aground and you don’t display the proper lights? The lawyers will get you when someone runs into you.

here is a nice light tree

[carstenb]

Originally Posted by Chotu

right? If you have the anchor ball, you definitely have to have the inverted cone when you motor. It’s a slippery slope.

by the same logic, a boat should be able to display all the lights required of it. Everyone should get proper lights as well. Red over white over red, etc.

in case you go aground, you need to be able to display white over red over red over white.

True - the slippery slope works the other way too - If I don't use the day shapes, then I don't have to abide by the collision rules let the other idiot get out of my way

Sorry - I don't believe we get to pick and choose which colregs we want to follow and which ones we do not

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by carstenb

True - the slippery slope works the other way too - If I don't use the day shapes, then I don't have to abide by the collision rules let the other idiot get out of my way

Sorry - I don't believe we get to pick and choose which colregs we want to follow and which ones we do not

interesting subject isn’t it?

The slippery slope does go both ways.

are you able to display the required lights or are you picking and choosing?

these semi-optional things are pretty interesting. They make for a good discussion because it’s just personal preference that dictates what people do.

you can choose to ignore them all, you can choose to use some of them, or you can choose to use all of them which includes the lights for a vessel aground

pretty tough argument to say these are required when you’re not capable of showing the required lights.

also a pretty tough argument to say you shouldn’t have the anchor ball when you are following the rest of the things like having a 360 white light for your anchor

So as you see, that’s why these threads go really long and turn into a big discussion. Because there is no answer. They are a logical impossibility.

People just do what they feel like doing in this department.

Then they hunt for facts or scenarios on the water to rationalize their choice

[carstenb]

Originally Posted by Chotu

interesting subject isn’t it?

The slippery slope does go both ways.

are you able to display the proper lights or are you picking and choosing?

With a bit of ingenuity, I could probably display most of the relevant dayshapes

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by carstenb

With a bit of ingenuity, I could probably display most of the relevant dayshapes

I wasn’t asking about the dayshapes. I was asking about being grounded and being able to show red over white over white over red lights as required. Do you have a light tree set up for that?

If not, it’s a tough argument to say that everyone needs to have the anchor ball in that case. Because you are not following everything required either