Anchor Balls

[wyb2]

Originally Posted by HankOnthewater

I see that Murdoch in post #8 beat me to it. Thank you.
Often we have these kind of discussions, and no one lists the exact rules or wording for those rules.
Strange, IMO does not show the colregs on theri website.
https://www.imo.org/

Usuing this site: http://www.mar.ist.utl.pt/mventura/P...OLREG-1972.pdf
Rule 30 shows about such ball, copied below:

Anchoredvessels and vessels aground
(a). A vessel at anchor shall exhibit where it can best be seen:
(i). in the fore part, an all-round white light or one ball;
(ii). at or near the stern and at a lower level than the light prescribed in subparagraph (i), an all-round white light.
(b). A vessel of less than 50 metres in length may exhibit an all-round white light where it can best be seen instead of the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule.
(c). A vessel at anchor may, and a vessel of 100 metres and more in length, shall also use the available working or
equivalent lights to illuminate her decks.

And as Murdoch copied in his post (from annex 1) it gives details of such shapes.

I seem to recall that boats under 7 meter (~22 ft) are exempt from showing such anchorball, but I can not find info on that.
Here is more info on sizing:


eh..... up to now I never shown an anchorball, have not got one on board.

So, since it seems to be common knowledge that a ball is required, but not used/enforced in the US, does anyone want to quickly explain why the rules written here clearly state a ball is optional? Is there another section that overrides what’s written in this section?

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by wyb2

So, since it seems to be common knowledge that a ball is required, but not used/enforced in the US, does anyone want to quickly explain why the rules written here clearly state a ball is optional? Is there another section that overrides what’s written in this section?

No, it is a light during darkness or a ball during the day. There is no option to have nothing nor is it allowed to use the light during the day as a replacement for the ball.

I know, I could barely talk us out of a ticket once. They let me off the hook because I could produce the ball and immediately deploy it.

[wyb2]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

No, it is a light during darkness or a ball during the day. There is no option to have nothing nor is it allowed to use the light during the day as a replacement for the ball.

I know, I could barely talk us out of a ticket once. They let me off the hook because I could produce the ball and immediately deploy it.

Does it say this anywhere?

That may be the interpretation used by the authorities, and if so, it is the defacto law in their jurisdiction. But unless there are some other words somewhere that clarify, it’s definitely just an interpretation.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by wyb2

Does it say this anywhere?

That may be the interpretation used by the authorities, and if so, it is the defacto law in their jurisdiction. But unless there are some other words somewhere that clarify, it’s definitely just an interpretation.

No, it is how it is. The ball and cone are day signs and replaced by lights when it’s dark.

[JBP]

I'm thinking these might be a good choice. Inflatables should take up less storage than foldable. $2 each if you buy an 8 pack, $4 for one.


https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CBPPWWL8...v_ov_lig_dp_ii

[wyb2]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

No, it is how it is. The ball and cone are day signs and replaced by lights when it’s dark.

According to who? The words don’t say that.

Again, if there is clarifying language somewhere else, then great. But the words above simply don’t say that.

I’m not saying it isn’t the practicality of the matter in some, maybe most, places. But it doesn’t seem to be the practicality of the matter in much of the US.

[Hartleyg]

Gentlemen,


The US Laws incorporating the ColRegs can be found at:


https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-3...pter-E/part-83


Hankonthewater, the "under 7 meter" rule is at 83.30 (e) - lights and shapes not required.


FWIW, we generally raise our anchor ball - we got into the habit from hanging out with OCC European cruisers A few other US boats in the groups we cruise with also raise an anchor ball, but we are, I'm afraid, in the minority.


Separate subject: I've almost completely quit putting out an anchor marking buoy because smaller power boats keep trying to pick them up as a mooring [I had one try to tell me it was HIS mooring, and I was too close!]


Hartley
S/V Atsa

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by wyb2

Does it say this anywhere?

That may be the interpretation used by the authorities, and if so, it is the defacto law in their jurisdiction. But unless there are some other words somewhere that clarify, it’s definitely just an interpretation.

It's all defined clearly in the COLREGS.


Therefore, it's a legal obligation to show an anchor light at night and ball in the daytime.

[Cheyne]

You’re assuming that the majority of American boaters even know what Colregs are or care.

Cheyne

[requiem]

Originally Posted by wyb2

Does it say this anywhere?

That may be the interpretation used by the authorities, and if so, it is the defacto law in their jurisdiction. But unless there are some other words somewhere that clarify, it’s definitely just an interpretation.

Rule 20 clarifies that the Rules concerning shapes shall be complied with by day, and the Rules concerning lights shall be complied with from sunset to sunrise and when otherwise necessary (e.g. reduced visibility).

One could make a technical argument that "shape or light" implies a free choice, but I would be extremely surprised to find any official interpretation that does not consider it driven by the terms of Rule 20.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by BlueH2Obound

Here's one on Amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06XYS1R7V..._dp&th=1&psc=1

It's only 13.8", so per colregs, only suitable for a boat 37.5' or shorter. It would work for your boat!

Just for reference, a 50' boat would require an anchor ball at 18" or thereabouts.

Where did you get that set of dimensions? The rule says:

From Colregs Annex 1

§ 84.11 Shapes
(a) Shapes shall be black and of the following sizes:
(1) A ball shall have a diameter of not less than 0.6 meter;
(2) A cone shall have a base diameter of not less than 0.6 meter and a
height equal to its diameter;
(3) A diamond shape shall consist of two cones (as defined in
Paragraph (a)(2) of this section) having a common base.
(b) The vertical distance between shapes shall be at least 1.5 meter.
(c) In a vessel of less than 20 meters in length shapes of lesser dimensions
but commensurate with the size of the vessel may be used and the
distance apart may be correspondingly reduced.

So, if a 1000 foot tanker can use a 0.6m diameter ball seems that a 50 foot yacht could use one 50/1000 the size...reduced proportionally by length. Now, this is kinda silly, but I don't see w here a basketball sized one (as we use) does not meet the rule. It is certainly visible at reasonable distances and the rule is not specific about the reduction in size.

Jim

[wrwakefield]

We display an anchor day-shape [an A3 black spherical fender- serving 2 purposes…] even though we rarely share an anchorage with another vessel [perhaps 15% of the time]. It is too easy not to [an easy CYA] and the occasional float plane that lands in the bay we are anchored in appreciates being able to easily verify we are on a leash.

I always deploy an anchor bridle too; oh, and set the parking brake when parking a car. [And I dare to use turn signals when driving too…]

And yes, when the occasional vessel ventures near us at anchor, we are often asked why we store a fender up the forestay… [US flagged vessels typically…] My ‘Anchor day-shape’ response might as well be a foreign language, as is COLREGS.

Which also makes me wonder how many would recognize the international distress flag included with the approved distress lights slowly replacing pyrotechnic distress signals.

Like manners, you can’t enforce the unenforceable… [ignoring the laws and regulations aspect…]

To each their own.

Cheers, Bill

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by wyb2

Does it say this anywhere?

That may be the interpretation used by the authorities, and if so, it is the defacto law in their jurisdiction. But unless there are some other words somewhere that clarify, it’s definitely just an interpretation.

NO, it is not "just an interpretation"!

§ 83.30 Vessels anchored, aground and moored barges (Rule 30).

(a) A vessel at anchor shall exhibit where it can best be seen:

(i) In the fore part, an all-round white light or one ball;

This is pretty damn plain language and not subject to your interpretation.

Jim

[wyb2]

Originally Posted by requiem

Rule 20 clarifies that the Rules concerning shapes shall be complied with by day, and the Rules concerning lights shall be complied with from sunset to sunrise and when otherwise necessary (e.g. reduced visibility).

One could make a technical argument that "shape or light" implies a free choice, but I would be extremely surprised to find any official interpretation that does not consider it driven by the terms of Rule 20.

Thank you, this is the clarification I couldn't find. I was looking at this PDF on the USCG website (https://www.navcen.uscg.gov/sites/de...s/navrules.pdf), I had searched for "dayshape" and "ball" and wasn't finding it. I needed to look for just "shape".

Funny how many people will respond to the question of "where does it say that?" with "It says so!"

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by wyb2

Thank you, this is the clarification I couldn't find. I was looking at this PDF on the USCG website (https://www.navcen.uscg.gov/sites/de...s/navrules.pdf), I had searched for "dayshape" and "ball" and wasn't finding it. I needed to look for just "shape".

Funny how many people will respond to the question of "where does it say that?" with "It says so!"

Well, "it says so" in fact is accurate.


You need to know the whole COLREGS because in MOST cases more than one Rule is applicable to any given question. In this case, Rule 20 as well as Rule 30.