Anchor Balls

[carstenb]

Originally Posted by Chotu

I wasn’t asking about the dayshapes. I was asking about being grounded and being able to show red over white over white over red as required. Do you have a light tree set up for that?

No light tree - but as I said - with a bit of ingenuity I could probably show the lights

[MicHughV]

The problem as I see it, is that while some may be familiar with day shapes, etc, and use them, many aren't, and wouldn't know nor care what shape is hanging in the rigging.

Yes, I know, ignorance is no excuse from the law, but bubba on his boat or jet ski
will probably see a black ball and say " what dat 'ting ?"

Speaking for the US, I've never seen local marine patrol boats enforcing this in any anchorage I've ever been in and I ponder if, even they would know what a black ball is used for.

Now with many areas having a designated mooring field for travelling yachties, the notion is that being in a " designated" anchorage is all that is required.

It's a murky area as I see it.

If it were to be a mandatory rule of law, it should be enforced, but it isn't, and the likely reason in the US is probably that 99.99% of boaters don't use one.

[Chotu]

Also, the argument "it's the law!" is a really weak one too

For example, it's illegal to put a car on reverse on a public road in Arizona.

Driving a black car on Sunday in Denver Colorado is against the law.

"It's the law!". So better park your black car on Sundays!

Basically, there are lots and lots of laws that are ignored in common practice and this is one of them.

Not saying anyone is wrong to fly these day shapes. It's your choice. But it's not at ALL required in the USA.

However, when I'm Rome (literally) I'll be flying one.

When traveling it's always best to adhere to the customs of the local people. Even more so than the laws.

[rslifkin]

For the lights, I don't think most pleasure boats necessarily need to be able to display every combination of lights. Some of them will never apply.

The one thing I have considered is adding the additional stern light for a towing light in case of needing to tow another boat after dark.

As far as the anchor ball, in some places it's pretty much pointless as anyone there but not moving is almost certainly anchored, but in others it's not always immediately apparent that a boat is anchored and not just drifting or moving slowly. So I figure it's an easy way to make the situation less ambiguous.

[s/v Jedi]

Observations:

- those who don’t know about anchor balls don’t have certification

- those who don’t understand why signals are used don’t have certification

- those who find it silly to use day signs don’t have certification

- those who state they will never use day signs don’t have certification

Maybe it’s not Colregs but lack of certification?

[SailingHarmonie]

Originally Posted by Chotu

right? If you have the anchor ball, by the same logic, you definitely have to have the inverted cone when you motor. It’s a slippery slope.

No, actually not quite right.

You only need to display a screaming cone if you are motor sailing, and could be confused for a boat under sail alone. You COULD display one while motoring under bare poles, but it’s not required.

To my mind, the steaming cone is actually more helpful to a knowledgeable sailor than an anchor ball since the rules on avoiding collision with a motorboat are quite different than a sailboat. To the ignorant, it is of course worthless.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by SailingHarmonie

No, actually not quite right.

You only need to display a screaming cone if you are motor sailing, and could be confused for a boat under sail alone. You COULD display one while motoring under bare poles, but it’s not required.

To my mind, the steaming cone is actually more helpful to a knowledgeable sailor than an anchor ball since the rules on avoiding collision with a motorboat are quite different than a sailboat. To the ignorant, it is of course worthless.

Agreed about the cone being more useful to indicate something that can be pretty ambiguous.

[carstenb]

In our travels we have met uncountable sailboats motorsailing and very have a cone up

In europe most show the cone

[sv_pelagia]

Originally Posted by SailingHarmonie

No, actually not quite right.

You only need to display a screaming cone if you are motor sailing, and could be confused for a boat under sail alone. You COULD display one while motoring under bare poles, but it’s not required.

To my mind, the steaming cone is actually more helpful to a knowledgeable sailor than an anchor ball since the rules on avoiding collision with a motorboat are quite different than a sailboat. To the ignorant, it is of course worthless.

In Canada: if under 12m, cone dayshape not required
Sailing Vessels Underway and Vessels Under Oars — Canadian Modification

• (f)
  Notwithstanding paragraph (e), in the Canadian waters of a roadstead, harbour, river, lake or inland waterway, a vessel of less than 12 metres in length proceeding under sail when also being propelled by machinery is not required to exhibit a conical shape, apex downwards, but may do so.
  

https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/...2.html#docCont

[JBP]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

It's a fact that in the US most anyone can buy any boat they want for any reason as long as they have the coin to do so. No licensing, studying or practical experience or otherwise required.
It would be a fair guess to say that many boaters barely know how to handle their boat never mind knowing Colregs rules.

That's not quite true. Many states require a boat safety course and certification. It covers basic safety, bouys, and right of way. Day signals are not covered.

[Kelkara]

Originally Posted by sv_pelagia

In Canada: if under 12m, cone dayshape not required
Sailing Vessels Underway and Vessels Under Oars — Canadian Modification

• (f)
  Notwithstanding paragraph (e), in the Canadian waters of a roadstead, harbour, river, lake or inland waterway, a vessel of less than 12 metres in length proceeding under sail when also being propelled by machinery is not required to exhibit a conical shape, apex downwards, but may do so.

https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/...2.html#docCont

That's only for inland waters ... on the ocean it seems to still be required. Most of the Canadian modifications are for compatibility with the US inland rules, which means that the rules won't change too much from one side of the great lakes to the other.

[sv_pelagia]

Originally Posted by Kelkara

That's only for inland waters ... on the ocean it seems to still be required. Most of the Canadian modifications are for compatibility with the US inland rules, which means that the rules won't change too much from one side of the great lakes to the other.

Yes, but "roadsteads", "harbours"?

Interesting that the current version of the Canada Boating Safety Guide
https://tc.canada.ca/sites/default/f...ed/tp_511e.pdf


- mentions anchor balls as an "option"

- makes no mention of cone dayshape


And, of course, neither are commonly seen here on the West coast (except balls on anchored freighters).

[Kelkara]

Originally Posted by sv_pelagia

Yes, but "roadsteads", "harbours"?

The USA has a charted line where the Rules change to inland rules, I don't know if there's an official demarcation in Canada, or if it's up to us to determine whether we're in a roadstead or harbour ...

I suppose I do sometimes raise the main while motoring while still in the protection of a harbour, nice to know my lack of cone won't land me in jail until I reach open water.

[JPA Cate]

It seems to me that in Europe, where <carstenb> hails from, the use of motoring cones is police enforced.

It is not enforced in the US, Canada, nor Australia. Use of the motoring cone here in Oz is confined to a very few sailors, ex-Navy.

As yachties in our early days in the states, we didn't hang out where we would share anchorages with ships, and I had never seen an anchor ball before we arrived in Gladstone, Qld, where one sails through an area where the ships anchor and await their places in the harbor.

I'm sure the Europeans must think we from other places are parochial in our attitudes, and I do see how the use of the motoring cone is less antisocial than not using it; but years of experience of coping without its use makes using it seem sort of superfluous in the absence of enforcement.

Just sayin'.

Ann

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

It seems to me that in Europe, where <carstenb> hails from, the use of motoring cones is police enforced.Ann

I think if anything a motoring cone commonly ignored in NWE. French can get a bit fussy over dates for fire extinguishers and flares if you upset them and end up being boarded. Belgians notorious for getting excited over red diesel in UK fuel tanks (its used to identify lower taxed fuel rather than high taxed road and leisure fuel and illegal in the EU. The UK authorities have deliberately fudged the issue for a decade rather than implement the EU directives and higher tax, much to the consternation of the EU because the UK drafted the very EU rules ).

UK harbourmasters are more interested in speeding little sports boats and jet skis rather than motoring cone, oh and collecting harbour fees. However, the anchor ball is frequently seen.