Why Star vs Square Socket on Sail Winches?

[WestAus]

Surprised I couldn't find any conversations re this via google.

I'm suspecting the star shape is an intentional after sales marketing ploy, "hoping" to force consumers without the brain matter to consider a work around to purchase a "specialised ratchet" after they lose one over the side, vs simply using anything easily attainable that's "SQUARE".

Replacement handles appear to start from ~$100 to ~$500 (WTF?), vs simply grabbing a socket wrench from the tool box in an emergency, bending some rod & grind a square, using a battery power tool, etc, etc.

Could there be any other reason for the star shape?

Similar could be said about many other industries, incl automotive, something as simple as the windscreen washer container, different shape/size for each model release these days, $50+ to replace.
Vs in the 70s we could use anything that held water, or buy a generic off the shelf from an auto shop for a few bucks.

End Rant. Cheers!

[Jammer]

Erm. Well. They're 11/16". You can drive them with an 11/16" square drive if that's what you have or want to make, and it will work out fine. I have 1/2" and 3/4" breaker bars, neither one quite fits; my boat came with winch handles. :/

[SailingHarmonie]

Originally Posted by WestAus

Surprised I couldn't find any conversations re this via google.

I'm suspecting the star shape is an intentional after sales marketing ploy, "hoping" to force consumers without the brain matter to consider a work around to purchase a "specialised ratchet" after they lose one over the side, vs simply using anything easily attainable that's "SQUARE".

Replacement handles appear to start from ~$100 to ~$500 (WTF?), vs simply grabbing a socket wrench from the tool box in an emergency, bending some rod & grind a square, using a battery power tool, etc, etc.

Could there be any other reason for the star shape?

Similar could be said about many other industries, incl automotive, something as simple as the windscreen washer container, different shape/size for each model release these days, $50+ to replace.
Vs in the 70s we could use anything that held water, or buy a generic off the shelf from an auto shop for a few bucks.

End Rant. Cheers!

For a grand conspiracy, that’s not quite the craziest one around, but there are good engineering reasons for the “star” shape. The handle fits in much easier and quicker without even having to think about aligning it. As has been pointed out since it is an 8-pointed star, you CAN drive it with a square fitting. But nobody does. If you want to, feel free. Let us know how much money you save.

[RaymondR]

Probably came about for strength when a lot of this stuff was made from cast bronze.

[Tin Tin]

Probably an engineering answer around number of contact points, slippage etc - likely same sorts of reasons there are splines on a prop shaft.

[stormalong]

Probably a much simpler answer than that. A company developed a removable winch handle to replace the older flat plate insert design, probably Barient and everyone else jumped on the band wagon.

[Bowdrie]

Back in the old days Merriman made top-action winches with a square stud sticking out the top.
The handles were like a 1920s ratchet that had a square hole in it.

[GordMay]

An 8-point star [double square*] socket benefits from having more positions [than a square], for engaging the handle, in the winch.

* (2) x 11/16 inch/±17mm squares, superimposed at 45°.

[Mickeyrouse]

Originally Posted by WestAus

Surprised I couldn't find any conversations re this via google.

I'm suspecting the star shape is an intentional after sales marketing ploy, "hoping" to force consumers without the brain matter to consider a work around to purchase a "specialised ratchet" after they lose one over the side, vs simply using anything easily attainable that's "SQUARE".

Replacement handles appear to start from ~$100 to ~$500 (WTF?), vs simply grabbing a socket wrench from the tool box in an emergency, bending some rod & grind a square, using a battery power tool, etc, etc.

Cheers!

Our winches- Barient- indeed have the afore-mentioned eight point star socket. But the insert stud of our winch handles is square, which is the shape assumed after pulling the little lever at the end that permits insertion. Upon release of the lever, the little square becomes the star, now locked in. The OP’s quick fix will work, but since it won’t likely have the spring-loaded retaing square, it is at risk of going overboard-again. In my many years of sailing I’ve only lost three winch handles overboard. I’m glad there is apparently an industry standard on stud sizes, because over the years I’ve had Barlow, Arco, Barient, Titan- and they are interchangeable. On the rare occasions I’ve needed a spare, re-sale shops and ebay have them around $30.

[thinwater]

Replacement winch handles start at about $25. Yes, $100 buys a better handle. Such is the case with any wrench.


I've dropped 1 in 40 years, and I'm pretty careless with handles.

[JBP]

"How many winches do you have on your boat? The answer is none. They’re all capstans. By definition, a winch stores its cable on the drum, and it’s mounted horizontally."

No answer here, but it is interesting.

https://www.yachtingmonthly.com/arch...f-winches-6545

Apparently the star socket was introduced by Henry Shepherd while working for Lewmar. Before that the handle was an attached lever which you still see occasionally.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by JBP

"How many winches do you have on your boat? The answer is none. They’re all capstans. By definition, a winch stores its cable on the drum[1], and it’s mounted horizontally.[2]"...

Technically, I suppose you are correct. What, we sailors, typically call a [halyard, or sheet] winch, could, more properly be called a capstan.
1. The main difference, between a winch and a capstan, is that the winch has a drum, onto which a rope, chain, or cable, is wound [& stored]; while a capstan is a drum-shaped device, used to assist in pulling a rope, steel cable or chain, but which does not actually roll [& store it] it onto the drum. The capstan’s rope [etc] is tailed, off the drum.

2. Except, when it’s not horizontal.
Horizontal vs vertical windlass ➥ https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ss-184611.html
Horizontal or Vertical ? ➥ https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...al-142660.html

[JBP]

Not me. Yachting Monthly just being persnickity as a joke. When does a word that is commonly used incorrectly change meaning? "Irregardless" is now a recognized word

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by JBP

Not me. Yachting Monthly just being persnickity as a joke. When does a word that is commonly used incorrectly change meaning? "Irregardless" is now a recognized word

Or more precisely, if we are going to be that way, pedantic.

That said, if you go on board a ship or shop industrial equipment, they recognize the important difference between a winch and a capstan.

So Yachting Monthly is curiously. An the English are (do see themselves as) keepers of the English language.

[JPA Cate]

And what do they think the North Americans, Australians, and New Zealanders are? Enquiring minds want to know!

Ann