Why Star vs Square Socket on Sail Winches?

[Icarus]

Interesting how a specific topic gets bogged down in semantics..

[Boatguy30]

Now that square is an established shape!

Would love to see this guy bend some bar onboard and grind a square on it!

[Bowdrie]

Originally Posted by Boatguy30

Now that square is an established shape!

Would love to see this guy bend some bar onboard and grind a square on it!

Jeepers Batman, you don't bend nor grind anything.
You simply take a piece of flat bar and drill a hole in it then use your triangle and square files to work out the corners, (you do have an assortment of files don't you?).
However, for the lazy there are alternatives;
https://www.blacksmithsdepot.com/bol...ead-bolts.html

[RaymondR]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Why, this is heresy! I even have special Whitworth, Metric and Imperial adjustable wrenches on board to suit every fastener need. I'd be lost without them...

Jim

On the old DIN ( a sort of Germanic metric) spec adjustable wrench the worm turned in the opposite direction to British Imperial and SAE spec adjustable wrenches.

Picture a square inside a circle.

There are four points at the corner apexes where the area between the apex and the circumference will be highly stressed if a torsion is applied to the square and the circumference remains fixed.

Now picture an eight apexed star inside the circle with similar apex to circumferences measurements. The stresses on apex to circumference area under stress will be halved.

[Bowdrie]

Originally Posted by RaymondR

There are four points at the corner apexes where the area between the apex and the circumference will be highly stressed if a torsion is applied to the square and the circumference remains fixed.

Now picture an eight apexed star inside the circle with similar apex to circumferences measurements. The stresses on apex to circumference area under stress will be halved.

Square headed bolts/nuts have probably been with us since the time of Leonardo DaVinci.
Why? any blacksmith could make them fast and easy, and even when the industrial age arrived the early machinery could make them, and wrenches to fit were easily made.
If the heads/nuts lacked strength, no big deal, just make them bigger.
Nat Herreshoff was using square shaft ends, (and removable handles to fit,) on his boats deck winches over a century ago.
Interesting note; Herreshoff was subbing-out stuff to "Merriman Brothers", perhaps that's one reason why they were using square shafts on their winches a hundred years ago.
Even in the '50s>'60s it was common to see the structures of wooden boats put together with galvanized bolts/nuts that were square headed.
As was posted above, the need for strength in a smaller head size and increased speed of installation is what drove the industry to multi-faceted heads, (and the need to fit wrenches into small spaces where rotation could only be done a few degrees at a time).
IIRC, Gibb winches at one time used a hex pattern.
The guys at Barient probably just said, Hey, we'll just use a double-square, it's easy to produce and fast to use,,,,,.
Head strength? Today we have ARP bolts.

[rossdv8]

Originally Posted by GordMay

An 8-point star [double square*] socket benefits from having more positions [than a square], for engaging the handle, in the winch.

* (2) x 11/16 inch/±17mm squares, superimposed at 45°.

This answer hit the nail on the head! It is all about being able to quickly slip the square winch handle drivey thingy into the socket at twice as many different positions, which gives a lot more angley parts of the circle for purchase and leverage when winding a heavy load.

Basically - it is all about the length of the handle and the position you are trying to wind from / to. Gearing and Leverage.

[Bill_Giles]

Simple, there is more metal, and hence stronger, in a star than a square of the same size.

[Paroo2020]

Originally Posted by WestAus

Surprised I couldn't find any conversations re this via google.

I'm suspecting the star shape is an intentional after sales marketing ploy, "hoping" to force consumers without the brain matter to consider a work around to purchase a "specialised ratchet" after they lose one over the side, vs simply using anything easily attainable that's "SQUARE".

Replacement handles appear to start from ~$100 to ~$500 (WTF?), vs simply grabbing a socket wrench from the tool box in an emergency, bending some rod & grind a square, using a battery power tool, etc, etc.

Could there be any other reason for the star shape?

Similar could be said about many other industries, incl automotive, something as simple as the windscreen washer container, different shape/size for each model release these days, $50+ to replace.
Vs in the 70s we could use anything that held water, or buy a generic off the shelf from an auto shop for a few bucks.

End Rant. Cheers!

It would be very inconvenient to only have 4 possible angles to install a winch handle, especially in a slightly confined space - the star is convenient as it overcomes this problem - nothing really to do with marketing which didn't really exist until the last 25 years or so. Someone was thinking outside the square!!