Ropework tools

[Seaworthy Lass]

Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED

One of the other reasons I prefer steel is that if you press down with any real force to cut something when using a ceramic knife, you're risking breaking it. Ditto if you execute a draw stroke cut. And if the cordage is either thick, or old & stiff, such as 3-strand anchor rode, forget it, I wouldn't even dare try a ceramic on such. As it's just too tough, & hard. Enough so that I'd think it'd almost guarantee a chipped or broken blade with a ceramic knife.
Ever drop a ceramic knife into a steel sink, or the floor? Or wear one on your belt & bump into things/fall down

Let alone if you do "the evil thing" AKA pound on the back of a knife's spine with a mallet to assist in cutting something that's thick or tough. A technique that I'm vehemently opposed to. And while many "experts" advocate it, it's not good practice. And usually said experts either don't know how to properly work with & care for knives, or don't care. Either way, it's in bad form.

Scissors do have their uses, & are easy to sharpen with a hone, or better yet, a benchtop grinder. However, you can't do partial depth cuts with them. Nor precise bevels, etc. But they're more than worthy in keeping on one's tool quiver.

And alternative to steel knives, stainless & non, are alloys like Stellite, & Talonite. They're made of alloys that have microscopic particles of things like Carbide mixed in with the parent metal. Where the tiny Carbide bits act as micro serrations when cutting, so that it's tough to dull them as compared to regular knives. And most such alloys won't rust. The catch though is their price, & that they're somewhat more brittle than pure steel.

Oh, before I forget, there are some good stainless alloys out there which approach mid-level carbon steels in physical properties. Though they do cost more, & tend to be more brittle. Like D2 as favored by knife maker Bob Dozier. Which, you'll notice that his knives made from it run on the small side. Purposefully so, so that no one much tries to chop with them. But they function respectably for general cutting, & small knife chores.

BTW, Here's another thread on splicing, with discussions on tools for same. http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ma-172847.html

Zanshin, with your handle it's no surprise that you've more than a passing familiarity with sharpening knives. And on that topic, a tip for all is to invert a ceramic coffee cup, & use the unglazed portion of the ring on it's underside to sharpen your knives. Plates & such work too, but with a mug, the smaller ring with it's flats only being 3" apart makes for decent sharpening guides. As having 2 flats to stroke the blade across act somewhat like a large whetstone. It helps you to keep the angle consistent when sharpening.

Edit: There are a few other coatings that you can add to knife blades as well, if corrosion truly worries you. Cold bluing, Ceracoat, Moly Resin, various water transfer/dip coatings, epoxies, etc. Few of which are tough to do, or require fancy setups.

A mine of information. Thanks.

It is raining here, so as I can't go for a bike ride I have spent the morning researching metals. A very pleasurable few hours, but my mind is now spinning. Primarily at the moment I would like a couple of kitchen knives. I am making do with some dreadful ones, as all my good equipment is on board the boat (I have been holding off purchasing anything new as I keep thinking it won't be long before I am reunited). It is still a toss up between carbon steel and forged X50CrMoV15. It is not only boat building that involves making decisions where different characteristics have very mixed pros and cons .
Edited to add: discovered SG2 & ZDP189

I have decided a carbon steel knife and decent scissiors sounds like the best combo for ropework. For now I will see if I can have my Kyocera resharpened. It is a beautiful pocketknife to handle when it is sharp. The old Myerchin in the photo in post #1 with the Marlin spike is otherwise my standard pocketknife. I do like knives of all sorts .

SWL

[UNCIVILIZED]

One other thing that I do with Super Glue is to use it to help attach small diameter lines to DIY "splicing needles". Meaning that if I need to thread a line through the core of another, larger line, or the leech line pocket on a sail. I'll snip off a long section of coathanger wire, round over one end with sandpaper, & abrade the other end. To which I then glue, & tightly seize the line that I want to thread through the pocket in the sail, or other line.

Between the seizings, & glue, I've yet to have one come loose while threading such a line where ever I need it to go. Be it a mainsail luff, or the drawstring on a hoody.

A couple of other knife tips are that you can buy non-stainless knives that are finished to a mirror polish, & as long as you keep them oiled, they stay pretty for a LONG time. Rusht just has a tougher time forming on a slick surface that's relatively free of imperfections. As evidenced by how corrosion free rod rigging stays, ditto lifeline stanchions, etc. But that anywhere there are crevices or irregularities in stainless, that's usually where rust starts to form first.

Also, to protect items both stainless & non from corrosion. First strip them down to bare, clean metal. Then apply several coats of automotive paste wax, as you would to a car. And once it's cured, & been buffed, etc., oil the metal overtop of the wax. And after that, routinely oil the tool/item as you would if there wasn't any wax on it. This combo process goes a LONG way to keeping steel corrosion free, even in truly hostile environments.

One other "trick" for cleaning up metal that has light corrosion on it, even if just an excessively thick film of oxidation, such as occassionally forms on stainless. Is to wet sand it using super fine abrasives, & oil.
I've used wet/dry sandpaper starting at about 200 grit, all the way to 3m Scotch-brite pads. And while it's often okay to scrub mild corrosion off of stainless using water & mild abrasives, mild (carbon) steel & some other metals do better without the water part of that equation. Thus the oil instead. It seems to seal up the pores of the metal pretty well, thus enhancing the longevity of the oil on/in the steel. Kind of like seasoning cast iron pots.

[UNCIVILIZED]

Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass

A mine of information. Thanks.

It is raining here, so as I can't go for a bike ride I have spent the morning researching metals. A very pleasurable few hours, but my mind is now spinning. Primarily at the moment I would like a couple of kitchen knives. I am making do with some dreadful ones, as all my equipment is on board the boat (I have been holding off purchasing anything new as I keep thinking it won't be long before I am reunited). It is still a toss up between carbon steel and forged X50CrMoV15. It is not only boat building that involves making decisions where different characteristics have very mixed pros and cons .

I have decided a carbon steel knife and decent scissiors sounds like the best combo for ropework. For now I will see if I can have my Kyocera resharpened. It is a beautiful pocketknife to handle when it is sharp. The old Myerchin in the photo in post #1 with the Marlin spike is otherwise my standard pocketknife. I do like knives of all sorts .

SWL

SWL, FWIW I do 95% of the work in the kitchen/galley with a 7" Chicago Cutlery knife (stainless), & my ancient (carbon steel) cleaver. The other 5% or so getting fielded by a spud peeler, a pair of scissors, & a multi-sided cheese & vegetable grater. Okay, I have a filet knife too
The irony being that for decades follks have asked me when my resturant would be opening (ie; they LOVE my food). But are shocked when they see how few, & simple tools I use. So...

Here are a couple of recent food, & kitchen knife threads which may be of help.
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ml#post2288312
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ist-88604.html

And also know that anymore, how well a knife works, depends as much/more on the method by which it's ground to shape, than by the heat treatment that it recieves. As if someone's dumb when it comes to cutting, shaping, & grinding a knife blank, no material nor heat treatment will ever be able to compensate for this. Nor can you take a premium steel blank, grind it properly, & then give it crap heat treat, & have it turn out well.

Heat treatment for knives, & tools in general, is simply a very scientiific recipe book. You decide what properties you want most in a tool, & from there, pick the steel(s), along with the appropriate heat treatment, & chemical treatment steps, & you should get a good finished product. One that turns out the same every time.

Very, very few knives or tools are fully made, & heat treated by eye & hand anymore. Though I've a few friends that excel at it. But they're raritys. Which is reflected in the price of their knives. For which the waiting list is wildly long.

[Stumble]

Uncivilized,

No heat from me, I absolutly love my steel knives, I just am not going to be diligent enough to sharpen them as often as they need in order to reliably cut dyneema. The thing I like about ceramic is it holds it edge better, not that it takes a better edge.

In the kitchen I do pretty much everything with a 8" Santoku, the only other knife I reach for with any regularity is a 8" chef's knife when the Santoku is dirty. They are both sharp enough to shave with, but I also am very careful to preserve the edge. They never touch anything but food and the wooden cutting board, never get mistreated, and get honed every time they get used.

My ceramic pocket knife has been in my pocket every day for years now, and other than resharpening a few times a year actually gets pretty abused. Banged into things, drug across concrete, dropped, mishandled, and all the normal stuff you do with a pocket knife, and it is still chip free. It may be in the difference of how the blades are made, or it may be I a man just lucky, but mine has gotten no special handeling and is still in perfect condition other than a very small nick right at the tip.

Below is a picture after I think four years of hard life.

[markwesti]

Thanks for the nod Seaworthy Lass , to answer your question I don't really store them the white handled knife Is my Ka-Bar . I lives in a sheath in the gutter underneath the port lights . I'm not sure what kind of SS it is but it doesn't get rust . A couple of months ago I left the port lights open and it got really foggy the Ka-Bar sheath got soaked it took a few days to dry out . I did get a riggers bag from the Wooden Boat Store , I really like it .
http://www.woodenboatstore.com/produ...h_Leather_Trim

[UNCIVILIZED]

Stumble/Greg,
That's a fairly impressive resume for a ceramic knife. Glad she's served you well. Just don't make the mistake of loaning her to someone !!! It could sever the friendship


EDIT: I forgot to mention this earlier, but... & for old hands, this is old news. When you pull out your rigging, & splicing tools, also grab the bag or basket in which all of your scrap & spare cordage bits are kept. Including small stuff, off cuts of line, spare line jacket, & line cores, leathering scraps, cordura, chafe sleeve material, bits of tubular webbing, odd bits of 12-strand Spectra, etc. As quite often this stuff’s invaluable to have on hand when doing projects like this. And you may also want to have your ship’s leathering kit/supplies nearby too, along with some Maxi Jacket II, RP25, or Samthane. For doing things such as adding leather or chafe protection to certain portions of docklines. Or painting bare 12-strand Spectra with RP25 to assist it's longevity vs. both UV & Chafe.

[Wotname]

SWL, some more steel info...

A carbon steel will rust (i.e ferrous oxide) which the brown stuff we don't like, however it can also be persuaded into forming a black coating whose chemical composition I don't recall (and am too lazy to look it up this morning ). The black (or dark) surface coating is fairly rust resistant and protects the blade from rusting in the short term. If the black surface is oiled or waxed or whatever, the surface stays rust free. Regular use is its friend. You will note that most well used carbon steel blades are black!!!

Likewise I can't recall the exact process for creating the black surface but I think it is a simple heat process - goggle will know (as will other posters here )

Also consider laminated blades. These have a very thin centre layer of high quality carbon tool steel sandwiched between two thicker layers of stainless steel. The layers are forged together and the benefit is obvious - the robust stainless layers protect the hard centre layer. Of course the carbon steel centre layer remains rust free by use and sharpening. They are also reasonably easy to sharpen as the centre layer is so thin and the stainless bulk is soft.

Helle in Norway make range of laminated blades. I don't have much hands on experience with them although I am currently working up a handle for one of their laminated blanks. I also can't offer any experience of their suitability as a deck knife but I'm sure they would be fine below decks (i.e. protected from constant salt water exposure).

Helle have a history of fishing and hunting knives and while most have curly birch handles, some of the non full tang blades have cork handles so the knife floats.

This full tang laminated knife interests me Fire - Helle kniver
(could be nice to work a custom handle on it)

[Seaworthy Lass]

Originally Posted by Wotname

SWL, some more steel info...

A carbon steel will rust (i.e ferrous oxide) which the brown stuff we don't like, however it can also be persuaded into forming a black coating whose chemical composition I don't recall (and am too lazy to look it up this morning ). The black (or dark) surface coating is fairly rust resistant and protects the blade from rusting in the short term. If the black surface is oiled or waxed or whatever, the surface stays rust free. Regular use is its friend. You will note that most well used carbon steel blades are black!!!

Likewise I can't recall the exact process for creating the black surface but I think it is a simple heat process - goggle will know (as will other posters here )

Also consider laminated blades. These have a very thin centre layer of high quality carbon tool steel sandwiched between two thicker layers of stainless steel. The layers are forged together and the benefit is obvious - the robust stainless layers protect the hard centre layer. Of course the carbon steel centre layer remains rust free by use and sharpening. They are also reasonably easy to sharpen as the centre layer is so thin and the stainless bulk is soft.

Helle in Norway make range of laminated blades. I don't have much hands on experience with them although I am currently working up a handle for one of their laminated blanks. I also can't offer any experience of their suitability as a deck knife but I'm sure they would be fine below decks (i.e. protected from constant salt water exposure).

Helle have a history of fishing and hunting knives and while most have curly birch handles, some of the non full tang blades have cork handles so the knife floats.

This full tang laminated knife interests me Fire - Helle kniver
(could be nice to work a custom handle on it)

Hi Wottie
I was just in the middle of writing you an email, as I knew you could provide some help . This is a bit off topic (hence the email), as I am primarily looking at galley knives today, but now that you have raised the subject of laminated knives, I will ask my questions here.

I have spent several hours today reading about steel. I think on board where salt air is a constant issue, I have decided I would prefer stainless steel. There are grades of SS that have a higher carbon content though, making sharper edges possible. These tend to be laminated between softer SS.

Can you (or anyone else) comment on the general performance (including ease of sharpening) of laminated SG2 vs ZDP189? I have read through threads on a few knife forums with very mixed responses.

Thanks in advance .

SWL

[Seaworthy Lass]

Originally Posted by Wotname

This full tang laminated knife interests me Fire - Helle kniver
(could be nice to work a custom handle on it)

I have just checked out this knife. 304 SS is used for the outer layers, so rust resistance will not be fantastic. No idea what they use for the middle layer. They are being very cagey, which always makes me a bit suspicious .

SWL

[jamhass]

You can make Brion Toss style fid from a nice piece of thin hard tubing (hard copper works OK, I had a nice piece of 1/4 inch SS tubing -- actually a bit of nuclear fuel rod cladding!). Just add a loop of mono line attached to a wood handle -- piece of dowel works great.

I make my own wooden fids for 3-strand. Nice thing is you can make them in various sizes and they fit your hand nicely.

[markwesti]

I think I remember that I read somewhere that a black handled knife is good luck . Anyway here is my Myerchin the blade is 440c holds a sharp pretty good .

[Seaworthy Lass]

Originally Posted by olaf hart

I might see if I can make some of the first needles you showed with some fencing wire and a MAPP torch,

Originally Posted by jamhass

You can make Brion Toss style fid from a nice piece of thin hard tubing (hard copper works OK, I had a nice piece of 1/4 inch SS tubing -- actually a bit of nuclear fuel rod cladding!). Just add a loop of mono line attached to a wood handle -- piece of dowel works great.

I make my own wooden fids for 3-strand. Nice thing is you can make them in various sizes and they fit your hand nicely.

Hi Olaf and Jamhass
I purchased the needle fids reasonably cheaply and given they are well made I thought them a bargain, but I think they would be relatively easy to make. A bent coat hanger would probably even work reasonably, although Benz's use of a SS wire would be even better.

SWL

[Seaworthy Lass]

Originally Posted by markwesti

I think I remember that I read somewhere that a black handled knife is good luck . Anyway here is my Myerchin the blade is 440c holds a sharp pretty good .

Nice equipment . I have had my eye on their marlin spike for a while.

It is very interesting seeing what others are using. Having spent most of my time on the water for the last decade I have been pretty isolated.

Anyone else with photos to share?

SWL

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass

Nice equipment . I have had my eye on their marlin spike for a while.

It is very interesting seeing what others are using. Having spent most of my time on the water for the last decade I have been pretty isolated.

Anyone else with photos to share?

SWL

Get Minaret to post another pic of his marlinspike. It's made from... the tip of a Marlin's bill! It's beautiful and he says that it works very well due to the taper and its triangular shape.

Jim

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass

I have just checked out this knife. 304 SS is used for the outer layers, so rust resistance will not be fantastic. No idea what they use for the middle layer. They are being very cagey, which always makes me a bit suspicious .

SWL

Ya a tough Lassie to please

This is a knife (and a smallish one), it should be in your hand or stowed on your body (or nearby) in an oiled leather sheath, not left unattended for weeks on end dangling from the bowsprit washed by wind and wave

To my uneducated mind, 304 is prolly the appropriate SS for the job.

And yep, I have come across the same problem regarding the middle layers. Older web information suggests the middle layer is carbon tool steel but later information does not confirm that. Maybe it is company secret thing. I do know that the centre layer on my #99 Harding blank is visible along the edge. While it can be seen by the naked eye, a 20x loupe makes it really clear. It will develop a surface rust if left unattended (and un-oiled) for few months just in a drawer at home. The polished 304 outer layers retains their mirror finish. This suggests that the centre is carbon steel and I have no reason to expect it is a poor quality.

This surface rust will rub off with a finger and the edge comes up well with a fine diamond hone. When I am in the mood, I follow this up with Lansky ultra fine #1000 stone, then a sapphire stone and finish off with a leather strop with a little jewellers rouge. But mostly I'm not in the mood and finish with the diamond fine.

The take away is that centre layer acts like, cuts like and holds the edge like a good carbon steel so I'm guessing it is.

Is it the best, probably not but it is pretty darn good and way better than some of the other "good" steels and I would suggest but couldn't prove that it better than almost all of the various SS blades.

Once again though I have never left this laminated blade out in the open on deck for any length of time - maybe it would fall apart in short order.

Why don't you get one and strap it to the tiller or wheel and report back in a year