Rigging over tight? To loose?

[Scot McPherson]

if your mast is keel stepped, make sure you remove the boot and any wedges from the mast when you adjust raking. After the mast rake has been tuned, then bang those wedges back in place and reboot the mast.

[dick sargent]

much really good info. The only thing not mentioned is lying on your back and sighting up the mast for trueness. Shouldn't be as difficult as you mlght think. Another trick re. adjusting the angle of the spreaders is to thread a halyard onto an upper shroud with a weighted bucket. Not a bad idea is to tie a line for a down fall if contraption gets hung up. Lol

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by dick sargent

The only thing not mentioned is lying on your back and sighting up the mast for trueness.

I check my prebend by sighting up the mast. I don't lie down to do that though.

The prebend is about where it was last time I adjusted the rigging a few years ago so I haven't readjusted since.

My rake is off a bit though because I'm out of adjustment on the backstay. I plan to set it correctly when I replace the backstay and forestay in a few more years.

I used the main halyard to check side to side straightness and that hasn't changed either from a few years ago.

It seems strange not to be adjusting the rigging more often because when I raced we adjusted prebend for almost every race wind depending

[F10]

No matter how you tune your rig, any tension above about 30% of breaking strength will be above the fatigue limit for stainless steel. That means if you keep tension below 30% the wire breaking strength, you wire and fittings should not fail due to fatigue load cycles alone. It may fail due to other factors like crevice corrosion, shock loading, stress corrosion cracking etc... I like to keep my tensions at or below 20% wire breaking strength, and normally no more that 15%

[Stumble]

Originally Posted by pcmm

That's pretty much the standard way to "tune" a mast after the dock tune is done. You don't tighten the lee shrouds all the way while underway. you just go for a sail and if the lee shrouds are really slack, you just count the number of turns to take the slack out of them, then back off half the turns. tack and then tack up the corresponding number on the opposite side. You site up the main mast sail track to check that the mast is still in column.

NO, NO, NO, NO....

YOU DO NOT TIGHTEN THE LEEWARD SHROUDS TO KEEP THEM FROM FLOPPING!

LOOSE leeward shrouds mean you mast is falling off to leeward and your WINDWARD shrouds are to loose, not that your current leeward shrouds are too loose.

I don't know why this misunderstanding persists in the cruising world and I really wish it would die. The only thing slack leeward shrouds tell you is how much the windward shrouds are too loose by.

[pcmm]

Originally Posted by Stumble

NO, NO, NO, NO....

YOU DO NOT TIGHTEN THE LEEWARD SHROUDS TO KEEP THEM FROM FLOPPING!

LOOSE leeward shrouds mean you mast is falling off to leeward and your WINDWARD shrouds are to loose, not that your current leeward shrouds are too loose.

I don't know why this misunderstanding persists in the cruising world and I really wish it would die. The only thing slack leeward shrouds tell you is how much the windward shrouds are too loose by.

That's how you do it. You take up on the loose shrouds by HALF, then tack and the formerly loose leeward shrouds now become tighter windward shrouds, then do the same for the now less loose leeward shrouds. You can't exactly tighten the windward shrouds while under load. its pretty basic geometry.

[Stumble]

Originally Posted by hafa

Even with a Loos gauge, there seems to be a range of opinions on what's the correct tightness. I've currently got my rig at 12% and the lee shrouds have just a bit of play when close hauled and heeled. Any opinions on what's the optimum adjustment for shrouds in terms of % of breaking strength?

There absolutly is not one. The only thing that % of breaking strength will tell you is how to retune the mast when you take it down. I.e. Set it back to what it was before. Without a good tuning guide to get initial set up, % of breaking strength tells you nothing.

On the same boat in different winds shrouds tension can vary from a low of about 2% to a high of 18%. On other boats I have seen as high as 30% in high winds.

Secondly different wires will need different tensions. Cap shrouds and lower often use the Sam England wire size but need seriously different tensions on them, Andrew let's not even talk about diamonds, where static tension can close in on 75% of yield.

Tune your rig by how it sails, trying to tune it by MBL % is like determining tire preassure based on the tires circumference. It's a silly secondary measure that's actually harder to get right then just measuring the thing you actually want to know in the first place.

[Stumble]

/sigh am going to go cry a bit and ignore this thread... tuning isn't hard, and it isn't complicated it just takes a little bit of time. Get the mast centered, the rake right, and the right prebend, then go sailing. Then just slowly tune the rig to keep the mast in column, any more tension than that is unproductive any less and you allow the mast to fall off the wind.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Stumble

/sigh am going to go cry a bit and ignore this thread... tuning isn't hard, and it isn't complicated it just takes a little bit of time. Get the mast centered, the rake right, and the right prebend, then go sailing. Then just slowly tune the rig to keep the mast in column, any more tension than that is unproductive any less and you allow the mast to fall off the wind.

[OrangeCrush]

Very minor tangent to this question:

What tools/technique do people use to actually tighten the turnbuckles? On my old boat it was a piece of cake, but now with bigger hardware I'm a bit more cautious of torquing the chainplates or putting dents in the swage ends. A rag helps with the second problem but I feel like I still need a second person to brace the chainplate. Does anyone use PB blaster or similar to get it going? Nothing is corroded but it's still hard to turn, even on leeward side with some heel.

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by OrangeCrush

Very minor tangent to this question:

What tools/technique do people use to actually tighten the turnbuckles? On my old boat it was a piece of cake, but now with bigger hardware I'm a bit more cautious of torquing the chainplates or putting dents in the swage ends. A rag helps with the second problem but I feel like I still need a second person to brace the chainplate. Does anyone use PB blaster or similar to get it going? Nothing is corroded but it's still hard to turn, even on leeward side with some heel.

Not sure I entirely understand "torqueing the chainplates" but I wouldn't worry about it.

[pcmm]

Originally Posted by OrangeCrush

Very minor tangent to this question:

What tools/technique do people use to actually tighten the turnbuckles? On my old boat it was a piece of cake, but now with bigger hardware I'm a bit more cautious of torquing the chainplates or putting dents in the swage ends. A rag helps with the second problem but I feel like I still need a second person to brace the chainplate. Does anyone use PB blaster or similar to get it going? Nothing is corroded but it's still hard to turn, even on leeward side with some heel.

If your turnbuckles are difficult to adjust, I think you need to go back to basics and clean them, and lube them with some anti galling/anti seazing type lube.

[OrangeCrush]

Originally Posted by pcmm

If your turnbuckles are difficult to adjust, I think you need to go back to basics and clean them, and lube them with some anti galling/anti seazing type lube.

That was my plan, will do. Do you have a brand in mind? I saw Lanacote recommended on a different forum.

[UNCIVILIZED]

When it comes to learning how to tune rigs, you'll learn more about this by racing than you will anywhere else. Especially in many of the one design fleets, & on boats which get trailered from one regatta to another. As the rigs are always getting re-stepped, & retuned. Including for differing conditions per each race, & sometimes even during/between legs of the same race.

Or barring that, do some study of the tuning guides for various boat classes. Everything from dinghies, to keelboats. As how a rig is tuned has a huge impact on sail shape, the boat's helm characteristics, etc. And yes, this knowledge does translate directly to a huge percentage of cruising boats. Though perhaps not quite to the same degree of efficacy. But the knowledge is invaluable.

It applies in a manner similar to crosstraining in other sporting disciplines. And if you spend all of your time just tuning one type of rig, you'll be missing out on a world of learning opportunities. IE. you'll quickly reach a point where it's hard to get any better at it.

[neilpride]

Originally Posted by OrangeCrush

That was my plan, will do. Do you have a brand in mind? I saw Lanacote recommended on a different forum.

Yes Lanocote is excellent for the job.. Higly recommended
Oh and i forgot to mention this, but lately, since 7 to 8 years agoo, many french brands fit a bunch of crapy turnbuckles in their boats, cant remember the Brand, better to lubricate it even if the boat is just few years new, i have a box with dozens of this turnbuckles cut in half...