Milwaukee Right Angle Drill as anchor winch?

[sailm8]

Slightly off topic. If you plan to lift someone up the mast using the Milwaukee drill I could not lift a 180lb man up the mast with a single speed a winch

[Franziska]

Good thing I weigh 40pounds less :-)

Originally Posted by sailm8

Slightly off topic. If you plan to lift someone up the mast using the Milwaukee drill I could not lift a 180lb man up the mast with a single speed a winch

[Jim Cate]

Franziska, I've just awakened here in Tasmania and others have addressed the question you posed re use directly in a motorless windlass.

And I agree that it would not do well! Remember that the original windlass motor is driving the gypsy via a worm gear with (on our Maxwell) a 56:1 reduction, and if you were driving the gypsy directly you would not have that mechanical advantage. Another factor derived from that gearing is that it doesn't like to run backwards... and that's what keeps your chain from running out in normal use when the motor is off.

If you could work out some way to use the drill to drive the same shaft that the motor does, then it could work... but that's physically awkward to say the least!

And FWIW, those specs sound like the new 18 V brushless may well be a good substitute for the 28 V model. I'd sure like to try one and compare!

Jim

[ShinyHappy]

Originally Posted by Franziska

If you follow the thread there seems to be an appropriate model from Millwaukee in a post a tad below my initial posting.

It's called Milwaukee M18 FRAD2-0 Super HWAG the biggest difference is that it runs on 18V.
The reason I looked mainly for the Milwaukee is that this model is already used by many successfully and seems to last well.

I had read it. My point was if you had sourcing issues, you probably have other well-made tools with similar specs available, though without the previous user experiences.

I believe I read somewhere in another thread on the same subject about a guy (probably an engineer) who tested the force at which he could crank a winch vs. the force of the Milwaukee tool turning the same winch. The tool won. I honestly don't even recall if it was on this site or another but the newer 18v brushless motors are very powerful. The right angle is the way to go from a leverage standpoint.

Good luck with your search.

[wrwakefield]

Hi Franziska,

We have a heavy duty horizontal electric windlass, and I have tested our Milwaukee drill for back-up ground tackle retrieval with success.

The drill will retrieve our groundtackle [166 pounds dangling in 60 feet...] using the windlass 1:1 manual socket. [One on each end of the horizontal axle.]

Our windlass also has a winch socket on the vertical worm drive shaft so we can manually take advantage of the gearing for kedging, etc. [10,200 lbs pull with 30 ft-lbs on a winch handle- per manufacturer.] The drill could easily be used to kedge the boat off of a grounding using this mode.

If you are interested, there are many more details on this post specifically regarding this topic, with links to our ground tackle inventor for reference.

If you decide on the Milwaukee 'arm breaker' drill, I will share a couple of things I learned [and reasons for my decisions] when I was researching it:

1) Get the M28 22V battery. It replaced the old V28 NiCad battery and is far superior per 3rd party testing [I have only owned the M28 batteries so can't say from experience...]

2) If planning to use the drill on multi-speed winches [where you would be running the drill in reverse under load...] consider getting the 'Ultimate Cranker' winch socket bit. It replaces the chuck [and is quickly interchangable].

There are two reasons I went this way:

- The bit will hold firm on the drive shaft in either direction of rotation under load [e.g., when used on a multispeed winch.] The chuck is not designed to run in reverse under high torque loads and can come loose from the driveshaft.

- It makes the drive shaft portion of the drill assembly shorter and lighter— which [subjectively] makes for easier handling. [i.e., the length— and weight— of the chuck is not included the total length of the drive 'shaft'...]

In case any of this is useful.

Best wishes with your windlass persuits.

Cheers! Bill

[Bundyon]

If you are having trouble finding the Milwaukee 28v drill, we cannot buy them over the shelf here in Australia, then look at the Makita 36v (2x 18V) DDA460ZK. I just recently purchased one of these to use on my boat. At 136nm of torque in low speed & an automatic torque drive, this thing has more grunt than a barnyard full of Pigs! This drill is quality and every bit as good if not better as a Milwaukee 28v.

[Pete7]

Franziska, if the aim is to keep the costs down, then I think what you need is the Simpson Lawrence vertical manual windlass. SL went bust 20 years ago, but their manual windlasses do appear on e bay etc every so often. We have one that is original and now 32 years old. Since there isn't much too the manual windlass other than a once a year grease, it just works.

We have 45m of 8mm chain and a 10kg Rocna. If the tide is running or its windy then I need to use the manual windlass. A 10" winch handle makes light work and it is really a one handed operation to wind the chain in.

There is two versions of the SL vertical windlass, one has just the chain gypsy and the other taller also has a rope drum on top.

Pete

[Franziska]

You guys are really great. Thanks for all the info.
A lot to digest, I think though, especially following what Jim wrote above we may need to settle for a standart electric winch after all.

I thought that the socket on top of these winches would be maintaining the gearing ratio when using the winch handle instead of the motor.
Apparently that's not the case and it's a direct drive than.
Most likely the gearing in the drill is not enough to counter that than.

Essentially I was hoping for a multipurpose solution, which would have justified the expensive drill as well.
Would have been especially nice to revive the upper part of an old windlass which would normally get trashed, despite being good in itself.

For now I guess we need to use a standard windlass.
The drill will follow later if and when we really feel the need to add it.

Thanks everyone.

[Franziska]

Great idea. I'll check with my boyfriend (he's the crew and older one of us) if he is ok with that too.

Thanks.

Originally Posted by Pete7

Franziska, if the aim is to keep the costs down, then I think what you need is the Simpson Lawrence vertical manual windlass. SL went bust 20 years ago, but their manual windlasses do appear on e bay etc every so often. We have one that is original and now 32 years old. Since there isn't much too the manual windlass other than a once a year grease, it just works.

We have 45m of 8mm chain and a 10kg Rocna. If the tide is running or its windy then I need to use the manual windlass. A 10" winch handle makes light work and it is really a one handed operation to wind the chain in.

There is two versions of the SL vertical windlass, one has just the chain gypsy and the other taller also has a rope drum on top.

Pete

[foufou]

since the versatility of a Milwaukee or similar drill motor has been mentioned I'll chime in with an experience I had while checking out a boat I was interested in buying. When it came time to start the engine after a few difficulties bleeding it etc we ended running down the battery. The owner was a contractor and had his work truck with him and said let me get my Milwaukee drill which he did along with a socket that fit the bolt at the end of the crankshaft. He asked me to pus the decompression levers on top of the 3gm30 Yanmar and he turned on his drill motor and indeed it spun the motor which soon started. So another use is as a backup starter. I was impressed.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by Pete7

Franziska, if the aim is to keep the costs down, then I think what you need is the Simpson Lawrence vertical manual windlass. SL went bust 20 years ago, but their manual windlasses do appear on e bay etc every so often. We have one that is original and now 32 years old. Since there isn't much too the manual windlass other than a once a year grease, it just works.

We have 45m of 8mm chain and a 10kg Rocna. If the tide is running or its windy then I need to use the manual windlass. A 10" winch handle makes light work and it is really a one handed operation to wind the chain in.

There is two versions of the SL vertical windlass, one has just the chain gypsy and the other taller also has a rope drum on top.

Pete

But Pete, isn't that windlass driven by the winch handle through the offset socket? If so, the Millie won't work as discussed above. Or perhaps there is a different model that I've not seen shown here.

Jim

[fourlyons]

No Jim, I used to have that windlass. You drive through the center and loosen/ tighten with the offset hole.
It's a great windlass, no gearing though, all the leverage is in the handle length; I used a 10" winch handle.

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

But Pete, isn't that windlass driven by the winch handle through the offset socket? If so, the Millie won't work as discussed above. Or perhaps there is a different model that I've not seen shown here.

Jim

[fourlyons]

Oh darn, maybe you're right Jim, now I'm not so sure. That was a long time ago

Originally Posted by fourlyons

No Jim, I used to have that windlass. You drive through the center and loosen/ tighten with the offset hole.
It's a great windlass, no gearing though, all the leverage is in the handle length; I used a 10" winch handle.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by fourlyons

Oh darn, maybe you're right Jim, now I'm not so sure. That was a long time ago

Looking at the photos of that windlass, the offset hole appears to be the shape of a winch drive socket and the central one appears round... that's the basis of my thoughts.

I vaguely recall one of the Maxwell models that had a winch socket at the central point. IIRC it was used to set/release the clutch... but maybe the manual over ride too?? I dunno...

Jim

[Franziska]

Jim, I was taking Pete's suggestion as to getting it as a reasonably priced manual version and not to be used with the Millie.

You are right it works similar to most (if not all) of them with the break operating through the center and the handle offset.
It would not work with the Millie. Looks like none of them does and I was fooled by the handle socket they have.

My boats never had a windlass and the boats I had to do with at work all had much much bigger windlasses with wheels for operation.

Guess if we get one it's this old manual S&L or a manual one with ratched lever.

We might even consider electric now. Any recommendations as to longevity between Quick vs. Lofrans vs. Vetus vs Plastimo ?

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Looking at the photos of that windlass, the offset hole appears to be the shape of a winch drive socket and the central one appears round... that's the basis of my thoughts.

I vaguely recall one of the Maxwell models that had a winch socket at the central point. IIRC it was used to set/release the clutch... but maybe the manual over ride too?? I dunno...

Jim