Milwaukee Right Angle Drill as anchor winch?

[Scorpius]

Originally Posted by caffel

Well said.
Can anybody provide a reference to the adaptor required for a right angle drill to fit into the square hole and act as a Winch handle? Tx

My local machinist (working out of his garage - but very good) would turn that out in a heartbeat. Just stick some square stock of the right size in a lathe and turn a portion of it down to 1/2". I doubt he'd charge much more than $50CAD ($35US).

[Franziska]

Originally Posted by ShinyHappy

Milwaukee are great tools and I use them and recommend them just as a DIYer. But I would be surprised if you couldn't find something EU-made that is comparable and easier for you to source locally. There are some excellent European tool makers. Maybe you've already looked or know that and haven't found what you're looking for. Just a thought.

If you follow the thread there seems to be an appropriate model from Millwaukee in a post a tad below my initial posting.

It's called Milwaukee M18 FRAD2-0 Super HWAG the biggest difference is that it runs on 18V.
The reason I looked mainly for the Milwaukee is that this model is already used by many successfully and seems to last well.

[EmeraldCoastSailor]

I bought a corded 7amp Milwaukee right angle at a pawnshop and paired it with the Harken bit from Vela Sailing Supply for less than $200 total. I have an inverter to drive the drill. Need to take care not to over speed and over pull. I could see how something could break if a jam elsewhere occurred.

[markcouz]

The advantage of a right angle drill over an electric winch is that you can feel the torque being applied, so hopefully you would release the trigger and investigate before causing damage.

[Scorpius]

Originally Posted by Franziska

Hey great replies guys, thank you.

There is just one problem, looks like they do not sell the 721-21 with 28V in Europe ;-(
I did write to them to see if there is not a way to get one anyway.

I tried to look up the spec to see if any of their European models matches, but the spec on the US site is giving near to zero info and the Euro spec is not much better.
Pretty appauling for a big company selling technical stuff.

Any of you have an idea which one matches the 721-21 best (see below)?
I'd guess the M18 FRAD 2 with 122 Nm but, thats really heavy so I wonder if the 25Nm would not suffice? Any idea of the max torque of the 28V US model?
The US site says this model runs twice as long as the 18V model but they do not specify how many amp the battery pack has.
Giving info like it can drill so many holes of this size with a battery pack is kind of a joke.

Here is the original 721-21 with 28V
https://www.milwaukeetool.com/Produc...21-21#sp-specs
Unfortunately it does not say how many amp the battery pack has. Neither gives it an indication on torque. Or weight and dimensions of the complete tool.

In Europe there seem two versions available:

The M18 FRAD2-0 with 18V
https://de.milwaukeetool.eu/de-de/m1...ine/m18-frad2/
The info it has on the site is:
18V
5.5Amp
6.4Kg
Max torque 122Nm
Dual Speed
Outside dimensions???
No idea if brushless either.


The M18 CRAD with 18V
https://de.milwaukeetool.eu/de-de/m1...hine/m18-crad/
The info it has on the site is:
18V
??Amp
4.1Kg
Max torque 25Nm
Outside dimensions???
No idea if brushless either.

THANKS

My understanding is that the 18v models aren't nearly as powerful as the 28v. You would probably be disappointed. The Milwaukee M28 Right Angle Drill (which I have and LOVE) is the gold standard. Like Jim says, it can handle anything you can do with a standard winch handle - and somewhat more.

According to Tool Barn, which sells the monster, the battery is 3 amp hours and the drill has 1081 ft. lbs. of torque - although I suspect that is INCH pounds - which means that, given that it is 15" from the output shaft to the handle (I just measured mine) at maximum load you need to pull on the handle with 72 lbs (or 33kg) to hold it still and let it do it's job. That sounds about right.

In terms of battery capacity, mine handles all the winching chores while sailing (a 42' LOD, 17.5 ton boat) for DAYS without recharging. I wouldn't want more torque (couldn't use it. It would break my wrist) and battery capacity has not been a concern.

Again from Tool Barn, the M28 angle drill weighs 11 lbs (5kg) and is 21 1/3" (54cm) long.

It is a variable speed drill but it can have two speed/torque ranges. I use the low speed/high torque range. Range selection is determined by which way the right angle adapter (between the drill body and the chuck) is installed as it either gears up, or gears down the drill speed and hence, inversely, the torque.

Hopefully this helps.

[roland stockham]

The way I would assess this is by weight or power draw. What is the weight/power of the electric motor on a windlass compared to that of the motor in the drill. The second issue is then gearing. What is the full speed rpm of the drill. If you run the drill slower than this you will be reducing its power and cooling so is the gearing right for powering winches - I suspect not! For a lightly loaded winch just drawing slack this would be no problem but pulling up a 35lb anchor and 20ft of chain is a pretty heavy load. You may be better looking at garage tools designed for undoing wheel nuts or similar that run on compressed air.
Standard windlasses run from about 500 - 2000 watts with a final speed at the capstan of around 10m/min under load. If you were to double this speed you would need to at least double the motor power so I think you would need a reduction gearbox.

[Franziska]

Originally Posted by Scorpius

My understanding is that the 18v models aren't nearly as powerful as the 28v. You would probably be disappointed. The Milwaukee M28 (which I have and LOVE) is the gold standard. Like Jim says, it can handle anything you can do with a standard winch handle - and somewhat more.

According to Tool Barn, which sells the monster, the battery is 3 amp hours and the drill has 1081 ft. lbs. of torque - although I suspect that is INCH pounds - which means that, given that it is 15" from the output shaft to the handle (I just measured mine) at maximum load you need to pull on the handle with 72 lbs (or 33kg) to hold it still and let it do it's job. That sounds about right.

In terms of battery capacity, mine handles all the winching chores while sailing (a 42' LOD, 17.5 ton boat) for DAYS without recharging. I wouldn't want more torque (couldn't use it. It would break my wrist) and battery capacity has not been a concern.

Thats interesting.
Your inch pounds equate to 122Nm (Newtonmeter) which is exactly the same torque as they quote for the larger one of the two Euro models from Milwaukee as Max Torque.
They have two gear ratios as well 0-500 and 0-1550 revs.
They have battery packs up to 12Ah @ 18V
https://de.milwaukeetool.eu/de-de/ak...s/?systems=M18

So I guess the M18 FRAD2-0 Super HWAG is very close to the 721-21. The torque is the same. And the battery pack can be huge...

Now, if we'd know for sure if a used winch like the Lofrans Project 1000 (or similar) could be, once freed of a burned out motor, be used fully manual by inserting the winch handle at the top (OR THE "MILLIE"!!) we could get the M18 FRAD2-0 Super HWAG for about 350€ and an used windlass with burned out motor for 200€.
Could someone perhaps confirm that the winch can be used fully manually?
It has a recess for the winchhandle on top.

Torque & Battery capacity & dual gear ratio are surely the most important part of the equation.

[sailcrazy]

We've used the Milwaukee Rt-Angle drill with the "winchbit" in it on our winches for the past 8 years. It's a bit heavy, but works perfectly.....even if the Jenny is full out and loaded and we need to reef under load! We also use it to winch my 200lb butt up the mast, or to winch the dinghy+O/B up onto the deck....again without a grunt! Ours is a 28v model, and its got the snort. The only issue is if you can get a fitting made to put in your windlass that will fit in the chuck. The replacement batts are spendy, however.
PS....we also used it to haul in our 25kg Rochna anchor and 150' of chain when our old windlass quit-we put a chainhook on the chain, ran the line to a winch, and brought it up in phases, all without a problem.

[RABenko]

Here is a link for the bit to drive standard sailboat winches with the fabled Milwaukee 28v angle drill:
https://thecranker.com/
I've had one for a few years and it has worked even better than expected!

[Scorpius]

Originally Posted by Scorpius

My understanding is that the 18v models aren't nearly as powerful as the 28v. You would probably be disappointed. The Milwaukee M28 Right Angle Drill (which I have and LOVE) is the gold standard. Like Jim says, it can handle anything you can do with a standard winch handle - and somewhat more.

According to Tool Barn, which sells the monster, the battery is 3 amp hours and the drill has 1081 ft. lbs. of torque - although I suspect that is INCH pounds - which means that, given that it is 15" from the output shaft to the handle (I just measured mine) at maximum load you need to pull on the handle with 72 lbs (or 33kg) to hold it still and let it do it's job. That sounds about right.

In terms of battery capacity, mine handles all the winching chores while sailing (a 42' LOD, 17.5 ton boat) for DAYS without recharging. I wouldn't want more torque (couldn't use it. It would break my wrist) and battery capacity has not been a concern.

Again from Tool Barn, the M28 angle drill weighs 11 lbs (5kg) and is 21 1/3" (54cm) long.

It is a variable speed drill but it can have two speed/torque ranges. I use the low speed/high torque range. Range selection is determined by which way the right angle adapter (between the drill body and the chuck) is installed as it either gears up, or gears down the drill speed and hence, inversely, the torque.

Hopefully this helps.

I just had an inspiration and looked at the battery itself. The label says it is 76 watt hours which works out to 2.7 amp hours at 28 volts.

[Franziska]

Interesting, the maximum watt hours with the biggest battery (12Ah) for the 18V European model is 216Wh.
Though that one might be overkill and to expensive.

Guess the 4Ah battery would do with the 18V model, it equates to 72Wh.
https://de.milwaukeetool.eu/de-de/ak...s/?systems=M18

[Scorpius]

Originally Posted by Franziska

Thats interesting.
Your inch pounds equate to 122Nm (Newtonmeter) which is exactly the same torque as they quote for the larger one of the two Euro models from Milwaukee as Max Torque.
They have two gear ratios as well 0-500 and 0-1550 revs.
They have battery packs up to 12Ah @ 18V
https://de.milwaukeetool.eu/de-de/ak...s/?systems=M18

So I guess the M18 FRAD2-0 Super HWAG is very close to the 721-21. The torque is the same. And the battery pack can be huge...

Now, if we'd know for sure if a used winch like the Lofrans Project 1000 (or similar) could be, once freed of a burned out motor, be used fully manual by inserting the winch handle at the top (OR THE "MILLIE"!!) we could get the M18 FRAD2-0 Super HWAG for about 350€ and an used windlass with burned out motor for 200€.
Could someone perhaps confirm that the winch can be used fully manually?
It has a recess for the winchhandle on top.

Torque & Battery capacity & dual gear ratio are surely the most important part of the equation.

I'm not sure this would work. On Scorpius I have Lewmar 42 dual-speed self-tailing winches for the jib sheets. If I use my M28 drill in FORWARD, thus running the winch at high speed (1:1) the winch spins too fast to be manageable and when the sheet comes tight the back-torque strain on the drill and my wrist is just too much. When I say it works wonderfully I mean with the drill in reverse thus running the winch geared down substantially (I'm not sure of the exact ratio).

Looking at a picture of the Lofrans Project 1000 there appears to be no gearing between the winch handle socket and the barrel of the winch. Thus I would expect, with an electric drill, unless it ran REALLY slowly (much slower than reasonable for the M28) the winch would spin much too fast and probably not have nearly enough torque to pull the anchor. Also the drill would be EXTREMELY difficult to hang onto.

I have no idea how they expect anyone short of an Olympic athlete to use a standard winch handle, with no reduction gear, to raise an anchor of any reasonable size with that setup. That feature looks to me like it is there just for show and to pacify potential buyers worried about how to get their anchor up should the electrics fail. I'd LOVE to hear from anyone who has actually tried to do it.

[Franziska]

Hmmm.

The Euro model says it can run bin two gear ratios 0-500 and 0-1500. Sounds like you do not need to go full blast and is regulated.

But I'm not sure right now.

Guess someone with a kind of similar windlass and a Millie would need to try...

Originally Posted by Scorpius

I'm not sure this would work. On Scorpius I have Lewmar 42 dual-speed self-tailing winches for the jib sheets. If I use my M28 drill in FORWARD, thus running the winch at high speed (1:1) the winch spins too fast to be manageable and when the line comes tight the back-torque strain on the drill and my wrist is just too much. When I say it works wonderfully I mean with the drill in reverse thus running the winch geared down substantially (I'm not sure of the exact ratio).

Looking at a picture of the Lofrans Project 1000 there appears to be no gearing between the winch handle socket and the barrel of the winch. Thus I would expect, with an electric drill, unless it ran REALLY slowly (much slower than reasonable for the M28) the winch would spin much too fast and probably not have nearly enough torque to pull the anchor. Also the drill would be EXTREMELY difficult to hang onto.

Sorry.

[keyway]

Milwaukee are great tools. I have noticed that the very expensive batteries are somewhat fragile and are easily ruined by a small amount of water. I have 2 18v batteries with cracked housings and one got fried from just a little rain.

[Bill Youmans]

I researched this and bought a Makita XPH07 Cordless Drill With BL Motor LXT. It has 1000 in -lb torque and I use it with winch adaptor (15$) for all winches on boat. Works great and doubles as regular work or shop drill. Hoists people up mast. Comes with bracing arm which need with the forces. Found it less bulky and more versatile than the Milwaukee tank. See Utube video on use by sailor.
I have not tried not on my windless yet but good idea.