Improving clutch lines

[tomfl]

Ran across this article about putting a cover over lines running through clutches. On the face of it seems like a good idea. The thing is there is a question asked at the end of the article about what size cover to use with no answer.

Wondering what the old hands think about this and could some one offer advice on what to make covers out of and what size covers to use.

[tkeithlu]

OK.......but might you consider either a smaller clutch, adding bite to the existing clutch, or putting line through the clutch of a diameter the clutch will clutch?

[Benz]

Adding cover in just a local spot (like where the clutch grabs) is not terribly desirable, as the transition point from not covered to covered can snag going in. The usual dodge is to bulk up the line by feeding a length of twine INSIDE it, choosing the diameter that will best suit the desired bulk.
Oops, just realized the article talks about bulking at the end.
On a side note, I think the world needs to get over clutches and jammers, which don't do well unless lightly loaded, and do great violence to lines if heavily loaded. FWIW.

[Suijin]

One experience of note. Was on a boat with a brand new high-tech (re: expensive) main halyard with a (new, properly sized) clutch on the mast. Boat gybed in a squall and the cover parted on the halyard, right at the clutch. Serious bummer.

I suppose a cover on the line at the clutch would have helped prevent this, but I don't know that there was room for it.

The article is about adding covers to upsize the line so the clutch grips better, and to lessen what is essentially normal wear on the line, so it does not address this problem.

Any suggestions (other than to not gybe during a squall, lol) would be of interest.

[Palarran]

What about leaving it tensioned on the winch and just using the clutch as a back up?

[Benz]

^^A line with technora blend cover might rip less easily than a just poly cover, but it also adds serious bucks.

The gentlest clutches I know are rope clutches, where the halyard passes through the center of a length of rope. These are the only ones I would ever consider using, since they don't pinch the line between metal or ceramic jaws.

[Jim Cate]

On a side note, I think the world needs to get over clutches and jammers, which don't do well unless lightly loaded, and do great violence to lines if heavily loaded. FWIW.

Please, while ridding the world of clutches, don't strip my boat... they have been working pretty well for many years and many, many miles, and I'd sure miss them.

The builder of our boat installed Spinlock clutches, and they don't slip under halyard or reef line tensions. But, you must unload them if you want to de-clutch. I've used Lewmar clutches in all the places where I've needed to add them, and they can be released under pretty great loads, and they haven't slipped either. There is some wear associated with the Spinlocks on the halyards. had to replace the line after 10 years of full time cruising, partly due to chafe on the cover, partly due to stiffening (this is spectra core, dacron cover stuff, pretty bog standard).

One of the issues we've discussed here is use of bare Dyneema for halyards, and the difficulties of winching and cleating such slippery stuff, let alone clutch gripping it. I wonder if using it just like we did with wire/rope halyards might not be useful? That is, the load bearing portion (from sail head to near the winch) being Dyneema, and the remainder being normal double braid. The short section of braid between the end of the Dyneema and the winch or clutch is too short to have significant stretch, the splices are easy and Bob's your uncle! SAves money, too!

Jim

[UNCIVILIZED]

One KEY part of maximising a clutch's grip on the rope is to use a rope that's the maximum size that the clutch will accept. That or buy a set of jaws which better fits the lines you're using. As in Spinlock's for example, you can swap out the internal jaws for ones in different sizes. And you can also replace jaws when they get worn.

You can add standard polyester covers to rope in order to bulk it up. Or go to something higher tech, & more durable. Usually made from a combination of aramids, & some other, lower tech fibers. Any rope stockist will either have some on hand, or be able to order it. And there are many flavors, including Flavored Ice.

Also, whether you add extra jacket to a line or not, or bulk up the line's core, you can apply Maxi Jacket II to it to improve it's abrasion & UV resistance. And if adding a cover to the line, or bulking up it's core, you may wish to use RP25 instead, as it glues the core & cover together, while boosting UV & abrasion resistance. Though it doesn't do the latter 2 as well as does Maxi Jacket II. So it's a trade off.

More tips include leaving lines on the winch whenever possible. And even securing the rode to a traditional horn cleat, & then lifting the handle on the clutch, to transfer the load to the cleat, & then reclosing the clutch. None of this is new, it's been standard practice since clutches first came out several decades ago. And modern clutchs are much, much, much kinder & gentler to ropes than the original & intermediate generations of clutches.

Jim, you're idea has merit, & in fact something quite similar to it is commonly done. It was offered as one of www.APSltd.com (splicing services) as of last check.
For example, to save money on runner tails on racing boats that use high tech cordage. Give the stuff's price, it's not uncommon to only use enough high modulus line to span the length of the tail which will be under tension when the runner is on, plus enough high tech tail to reach the winch. After that point a piece of standard doublebraid gets spliced onto the end of the high tech runner tail.

Sometimes the same's done with halyards. Though on cruising boats it's more difficult to define where that splicing point should be, given that it's common to reef mains down quite small, thus fully loading the majority of the length of the halyard. And with jibs, to various sized ones, including using varying length tack pendants with them due to wave conditions*. So again, defining the splice point in such a halyard it more difficult than on a racer which will only fly one or two, very specific sized sails from halyard X.


*The wave conditions caveat is that if you're flying a small jib due to high winds, in flatter water you can fly it lower than when solid waves are routinely coaming the decks. And are thus endangering the sails should the sails be filled by them due to having a low tack height. Even though in higher winds, ideally you want the center of effort of your sails to be lower in order to reduce their heeling moment. So sometimes you have to alter which tack pendant you use with them.

[Benz]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Please, while ridding the world of clutches, don't strip my boat... they have been working pretty well for many years and many, many miles, and I'd sure miss them.

The builder of our boat installed Spinlock clutches, and they don't slip under halyard or reef line tensions. But, you must unload them if you want to de-clutch. I've used Lewmar clutches in all the places where I've needed to add them, and they can be released under pretty great loads, and they haven't slipped either. There is some wear associated with the Spinlocks on the halyards. had to replace the line after 10 years of full time cruising, partly due to chafe on the cover, partly due to stiffening (this is spectra core, dacron cover stuff, pretty bog standard).

One of the issues we've discussed here is use of bare Dyneema for halyards, and the difficulties of winching and cleating such slippery stuff, let alone clutch gripping it. I wonder if using it just like we did with wire/rope halyards might not be useful? That is, the load bearing portion (from sail head to near the winch) being Dyneema, and the remainder being normal double braid. The short section of braid between the end of the Dyneema and the winch or clutch is too short to have significant stretch, the splices are easy and Bob's your uncle! SAves money, too!

Jim

Jim, I'm sure that your clutches and lines are sized appropriately, and not grossly loaded, in order for them to work this long. But as boats try and get bigger loads out of thinner lines, and work closer and closer to the fringe of reason, it seems that clutches and jammers aren't keeping up. I've seen (and replaced) enough torn and maimed halyards and lines on Gunboats to know that unless clutch technology gets a lot better (like the rope clutches I mentioned), people are going to keep tearing up really expensive line.
Maybe it's a problem of under-engineering, but the way things are going in the high-end sailing world, I can only conclude that standard jammers and clutches are not the way forward.
There's a whole 'nother thread worth of discussion about the compounding evils of bigger sails, higher loads, powered winches, and all that jazz, but since this thread is about clutches, I'll wait for that one to discuss all that.

[tomfl]

Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED

SNIP

You can add standard polyester covers to rope in order to bulk it up. Or go to something higher tech, & more durable. Usually made from a combination of aramids, & some other, lower tech fibers. Any rope stockist will either have some on hand, or be able to order it. And there are many flavors, including Flavored Ice.

Also, whether you add extra jacket to a line or not, or bulk up the line's core, you can apply Maxi Jacket II to it to improve it's abrasion & UV resistance. And if adding a cover to the line, or bulking up it's core, you may wish to use RP25 instead, as it glues the core & cover together, while boosting UV & abrasion resistance. Though it doesn't do the latter 2 as well as does Maxi Jacket II. So it's a trade off.


SNIP

This is just the kinda stuff I was looking for. I am not trying to "bulk up" my lines; just trying to make them last longer. And while I understand what I will call "good seamanship" suggestions a lot of it is old stuff to me.

Still wondering if anyone has used "standard polyester covers" and where they got them from.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by Benz

^^A line with technora blend cover might rip less easily than a just poly cover, but it also adds serious bucks.

Poly-what? Please be concrete.

-ester
-aramide (Kevlar and Technora)
-amide (Nylon)
-ethylene (Dyneema)
-propylene (water ski rope)
...etc.

[thinwater]

Polyester cover-only is available from riggers and people like APS, who strip covers for folks.

I've only done this to make lines larger, typically something like an all-Spectra furler line or halyard. Often I have used an old line scrap. This is better, since milking a line over a long length is a pain. You sew the core to the small line and use that to pull the cover over. Alternatively, an electrical fish can save a lot of pain (insert like a core and use that to help the milking).

Polyester also gives a better grip in the clutch and hand that Spectra.

If the line is too tight for splicing or even the sewn method (I've seen lines you could barely get a needle under a strand), you can also simply whip the cover on. So long as the whipping is very tight and does not enter the clutch they wear pretty well.

If the lines are wearing badly in the clutch, consider Yale Maxijacket. It reduces wear about 5 times for little work and few dollars. I've done the lab and field testing--it really works on polyester.

If you are releasing clutches under load, that is another problem. Most are not built for that and will chafe the rope.

[Benz]

Originally Posted by thinwater

Poly-what? Please be concrete.

-ester
-aramide (Kevlar and Technora)
-amide (Nylon)
-ethylene (Dyneema)
-propylene (water ski rope)
...etc.

Polyester, since you insist. Just using shorthand, since no one I know makes Polyaramide cover and calls it that. They call it Technora.
Nor do they call Nylon "Polyamide"
Nor is it common to hear Dyneema called "Polyethylene"
And I'm pretty sure no one makes covers out of polypropylene. Sure, that is what these things are, but we need not become insufferable nerds just to show off how much we know, now do we?
With utmost kindness intended...

[Palarran]

That's pretty funny Ben. I liked reading your articles in Cruising World. Good luck.

[UNCIVILIZED]

OP, I'm not sure if this has been answered well enough for you yet, especially the question of what size covers you need. Which, generally you want to use a cover that's 1/16" - 1/8" larger than the OD of your primary line. And of course a snug fit is preferable.

As stated, you can often use cast offs from old lines, or the jacket from lines that are now too short to be used for anything else. Spool ends, etc. And since polyester jib sheets & running rigging is so common, & almost always of a larger diameter than high tech halyards, it makes good donor candidate line. Even if this means buying 20' of inexpensive dacron doublebraid from Defender.

But places like APSltd.com & VelaSailingSupply.com have a number of higher tech choices too, as does Colligo Marine, etc. And all of the afore mentioned vendors will also have take off covers from having partially stripped high tech lines in order to make light weight halyards.

And when you're talkiing to such rigging shops, make sure to get feedback from them in terms of what they do as far as lock stitching such splicing. Particularly as pro rigging shops have sewing machines with curved presser feet, designed specifically for sewing splices in place.

The catch being, the more you lock stitch, & through sew a splice or extra cover, the stiffer the line gets in that area. So sometimes it's worth making the section of extra cover on the line a few feet longer on each end than you might initially consider, so that you have less of a hardspot in the line. Since then it'll only be sewn through at either end, & not for the entire 18" section that normally gets locked into the clutch.