Ditch the Self-Tending Staysail Rig?

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by fxykty

Athwartships track

Doesn't solve the problems, although there have been some curved ones that improved it. Many already have a straight athwartship track. Sail tracks run fore and aft so you can adjust the fairlead angle based on beating or reaching etc.

[roverhi]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

You need the ability to adjust the staysail. Open the gap or close the gap. You need to adjust the sheeting angle also. You cant do that "just removing the boom".

No boom: Difficult to get the staysail trimmed. The trim angle is variable. I finally started using a for/aft track and a 4 part Barber Hauler arrangement from the toerail to get the trim correct. The fairlead on the rack gets the sheet angle right, The Barber Hauler gets the port/starboard adjustment right.
Boom: all this is taken care of, BUT you have that stuff on deck.

Solution: Get dingy davits!

Have sailed more than 10,000 miles with a loose footed staysail, no boom, without any of the issues Cheechako claims are there. The staysail trims the same as a jib. With a fore and aft track you can modify the sheet lead but we didn't find that it made all that much difference in the set of the smallish staysail. I'm a bit anal about sail trim so it wasn't a matter of not caring. Ask yourself how often you mess the jib/genoa cars??

The slot between the jib staysail is very important in a cutter rig. They are not as efficient as a larger genoa hard on the wind but the slot really comes into effect as you ease the sheets. We didn't have roller furling so had to hand the Yankee when winds got too strong. that resulted in an immediate one knot slowing of the boat running without the Yankee.

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by roverhi

Have sailed more than 10,000 miles with a loose footed staysail, no boom, without any of the issues Cheechako claims are there. The staysail trims the same as a jib. With a fore and aft track you can modify the sheet lead but we didn't find that it made all that much difference in the set of the smallish staysail. I'm a bit anal about sail trim so it wasn't a matter of not caring. Ask yourself how often you mess the jib/genoa cars??

The slot between the jib staysail is very important in a cutter rig. They are not as efficient as a larger genoa hard on the wind but the slot really comes into effect as you ease the sheets. We didn't have roller furling so had to hand the Yankee when winds got too strong. that resulted in an immediate one knot slowing of the boat running without the Yankee.

Hey Rover, Out of curiousity, how far off centerline are your staysail tracks? I often wondered if the problem on my Passport 47 and CT44 was that they were pretty far inboard. They worked for beating ok, but reaching had too much curl to the staysail clew for my liking. But I also had staysails that were more than a small sail. They didn't reach the mast but may have come close stretched flat. You can see the staysail clew in my Avatar on the 44.

[roverhi]

The boat was our Westsail 32 which we sold decades ago. It's still in the Kona harbor but unfortunately we've been stuck on the mainland forever with wife's medical problems so can't measure it. From memory the tracks were about 3' off centerline but could be wider and aft of the mast. The pull on the clue is aft and down like a jib which is not the case with the diagram that you or someone else posted. That diagram showed sheeting the sail straight down in front of the mast. The boat was sailed to SoPac twice after we bought it and the new owners, boat carpenters, were very happy with how the boat was set-up and weren't hesitant about changing what didn't work for them..

[MalteseFalcon]

Our boat I had the option of a boomed staysail, I opted out and designed myself a self tending staysail, with sheeting lines coming aft to the cockpit from the travler. We crossed the Atlantic 3 times and have never regraet it.

[ArmySailor]

Old thread I know. But I had the exact same dilemma. 28 foot Shannon with staysail and boom. BLUF. I ditched the boom and removed the bastard 12 inch bronze horn that it connected to on bow. (It was a shin killer).

I use the staysail frequently, no boom. It's still very helpful going on some upwind angles... Still learning all the variables.

I rigged the sail to be basically self tacking by attaching a block to the clew of the sail and to a sheet that goes horizontally. I control the tension from cockpit. Great set up. Haven't tried it in extreme wind though. Nothing over 30k yet.

I do not regret it.

Originally Posted by AJ_n_Audrey

Hi, my boat is a Pearson 367 cutter with self-tending staysail (boom on track mounted on cabin-top). About three years ago I removed the staysail boom, mainly because it was impossible to fit my hard dinghy on the foredeck for the trip to the Abacos. I've been sailing without the staysail boom ever since, and I see no issue with it, and I use the staysail whenever wind is forward of the beam. The boom has a mounting point, a "mast" on the foredeck about nine inches high. Since I have no plans to re-install the staysail boom, I'm thinking of removing the "mast" since it serves no purpose now, and removing it would free up a little deck space.

When I mentioned this to a very experienced sailor, he frowned about it and told me that self-tending staysails are GREAT, and he didn't agree with removing it. But whether I have an RIB or a hard dink on the foredeck, I simply could not put a dink there with the staysail boom mounted. I need to do work on the foredeck anyway to fix some wet core and to re-build the bowsprit, so I figure now is my chance to ditch the "mast". Why would I not do that? Am I missing something?

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by ArmySailor

Old thread I know. But I had the exact same dilemma. 28 foot Shannon with staysail and boom. BLUF. I ditched the boom and removed the bastard 12 inch bronze horn that it connected to on bow. (It was a shin killer).

I use the staysail frequently, no boom. It's still very helpful going on some upwind angles... Still learning all the variables.

I rigged the sail to be basically self tacking by attaching a block to the clew of the sail and to a sheet that goes horizontally. I control the tension from cockpit. Great set up. Haven't tried it in extreme wind though. Nothing over 30k yet.

I do not regret it.

Just watch out for that block when you are forward and the staysail starts flogging. It'll do damage.

[ArmySailor]

Originally Posted by Don C L

Just watch out for that block when you are forward and the staysail starts flogging. It'll do damage.

I should have been more specific. The block runs along the sheet horizontally. It can't really flog too far athwartships unless it somehow breaks off.

It is connected to the clew of the sail with a soft shackle. When I do a sail change (my staysl is hank on). I leave the block. Take the sail and soft shackle.

I don't have a good photo of the whole setup on my phone, but I found one that may give the jist. I circled the sheet. It's continuous. And circled the tack, used to be a bronze horn there to attach the boom. I removed it.

And. A black cat. For good luck.

[ArmySailor]

Photo attempt 2

[LarryDW]

Originally Posted by ArmySailor

I should have been more specific. The block runs along the sheet horizontally. It can't really flog too far athwartships unless it somehow breaks off.

It is connected to the clew of the sail with a soft shackle. When I do a sail change (my staysl is hank on). I leave the block. Take the sail and soft shackle.

I don't have a good photo of the whole setup on my phone, but I found one that may give the jist. I circled the sheet. It's continuous. And circled the tack, used to be a bronze horn there to attach the boom. I removed it.

And. A black cat. For good luck.

Nice!

[AJ_n_Audrey]

Originally Posted by ArmySailor

Photo attempt 2Attachment 225260

ArmySailor, thanks for the photos. I have a track athwartship that was for the staysail boom. I had a block rigged to the traveler on the track, but I happen to also have fairleads at deck level that were installed for some purpose by a PO, and I routed my staysail sheets through those. Makes for a decent sail shape, and though I may decide to change down the road, that rig allows good shape on the staysail, and I am saying "good enough" until someone convinces me of a better way that doesn't cost a lot of money. I've sailed with it like that for several months, and I can't see any great difference from routing the sheets through the block on the track. Tacking is dead simple, and I'm still getting a slot, which absolutely helps going to windward. I'm going from Cape Fear to south Florida in about two weeks, so then I'll see how I like it in long runs, with hopefully some real wind.