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Old 01-08-2020, 09:01   #16
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Re: Ditch the Self-Tending Staysail Rig?

I love my boomed staysail, and if its a true cutter where the mast is further aft it makes a big difference balancing the boat to run it at all times, also helps getting the head sail across the slot when tacking.. I would not remove it personally. Especially if the main reason is storing the dinghy, get a different dinghy! I use a 10foot hypalaon Avon, with inflatable keel and folding aluminum slat floor, its as good as ribs, its lighter (90#), doesnt damage the mother ship when loading on and off, and when making offshore jumps it easily deflates flat or it can be rolled up and lashed down to 1/4th its deployed footprint. Just get an automatic 12v air pump. Ita also lighter if you want to keep it up on davits.
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Old 01-08-2020, 09:33   #17
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Re: Ditch the Self-Tending Staysail Rig?

No boom on my staysail(Herreshoff 28 modified ketch), although you might want to reposition your fairleads.
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Old 01-08-2020, 09:48   #18
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Re: Ditch the Self-Tending Staysail Rig?

[QUOTE=PamlicoTraveler;3199089]There is no right or wrong answer to the dilemma of a staysail boom, but if you have decided to get rid of the boom I would agree to get rid of the mast. Otherwise it's just an ankle buster, or worse, in heavy seas.

I have always dealt with the inability to have a dinghy on the fore-deck where the staysail boom goes. We can't have davits since we have a steering vane, so we have had to settle for short dinghys that could rest under the mainsail boom and we deflate the dinghy for passages.


Yes, I thought of storage under the mainsail boom, but it's just too sort an area on my boat unless I want to go with a nesting dinghy, which I considered. But also, storage under the mainsail boom seriously obstructs forward visibility.
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Old 01-08-2020, 10:06   #19
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Re: Ditch the Self-Tending Staysail Rig?

self tacking staysails are great if you tack a lot. If you are cruising and tack a few times a day then it doesn't help much, I have never sailed a boat with a self tacking staysail which I liked the sail control always a compromise even with a hoyt boom. when I set mine up I put car on my cabin top for tight sheeting angle. I always pull out my staysail, makes tacking the genoa a lot easier, after the tack then I tack the staysail, easy to do by hand.
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Old 01-08-2020, 10:34   #20
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Re: Ditch the Self-Tending Staysail Rig?

our csy 37 also was cutter rigged with a self tendng staysail. fortunately our deck was flat so storing the hard dinghy - a watertender 9.4 - was no problem. never used the staysail much but before removing the whole darned thing i got the idea to use it for my storm jib.


worked great the only time i ever used it. rolled up the roller furled genny and hoisted the storm staysail jib - had to go forward for that one - and the boat just ran downwind in big seas and strong winds (for me) like it was born to it.
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Old 01-08-2020, 15:57   #21
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Re: Ditch the Self-Tending Staysail Rig?

This thread is of particular interest to me and I don’t wish to hijack it but I’m a little confused to the referance of getting rid of the mast.
I have a cutter rigged Cape Dory 36 which has a single mast and a staysail with a small boom on a small traveler. So far, the hanked on staysail has been invaluable. I can drop the mainsail and the foresail and the beefed up staysail provides enough lift to keep me moving forward. Yes, the little boom eats up a lot of deck space, but when the sh$t hits the fan, I am SO happy it’s there.
I had the sail beefed up to work as a stormsail and added reef points....just in case. Why would I want to get rid of the boom other than having more deck space?
Deck space seems a moot point when you’re in a trough that blocks out the horizon. Sailability trumps comfort hands down in my world.....maybe I’m just a greenhorn scaredy baby.
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Old 01-08-2020, 16:14   #22
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Re: Ditch the Self-Tending Staysail Rig?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SSgtPitt View Post
...I have a cutter rigged Cape Dory 36 which has a single mast and a staysail with a small boom on a small traveler. So far, the hanked on staysail has been invaluable. I can drop the mainsail and the foresail and the beefed up staysail provides enough lift to keep me moving forward. Yes, the little boom eats up a lot of deck space, but when the sh$t hits the fan, I am SO happy itís there.
Agreed. The my staysail is also of beefy cloth, and the fact that it is on it's own boom makes it an excellent storm job. It's way easier and better to go to deep reefed main and staysail when Neptune turns nasty.

This is why I would never get rid of it. But if you don't sail in tough conditions, or you have another way of hoisting a storm foresail, then it might make sense to ditch it. Or just convert it to a non-self tacking inner sail.
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Old 01-08-2020, 16:22   #23
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Ditch the Self-Tending Staysail Rig?

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Originally Posted by Mike OReilly View Post
Agreed. The my staysail is also of beefy cloth, and the fact that it is on it's own boom makes it an excellent storm job. It's way easier and better to go to deep reefed main and staysail when Neptune turns nasty.

This is why I would never get rid of it. But if you don't sail in tough conditions, or you have another way of hoisting a storm foresail, then it might make sense to ditch it. Or just convert it to a non-self tacking inner sail.


I agree wholeheartedly. My staysail is in near constant use whenever I sail. Even in tough conditions the staysail with a deeply reefed main is easily manageable and keeps the boat under control. Only disadvantage of the self tacking staysail on a boom, as has been noted, is difficulty heaving to. I solve that with a block and tackle from the boom to the appropriate toe rail. Easy to set up. Easy to take down.
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Old 01-08-2020, 16:45   #24
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Re: Ditch the Self-Tending Staysail Rig?

Iím not sure why a staysail boom is necessary for a staysail. The only thing I can think of is that with a boom the staysail can have a longer foot. The boom enables the sheeting position and traveller to be forward of the clew and allows for self tacking. If this is the case, then the sail would have to be recut to shorten the foot and possibly raise the clew if the boom is removed and you still want self tacking.

We have a staysail for our cat and it sheets to the same sheet leads and traveller track as the self tacking jib on the main forestay. The staysail is self tacking. It is furling. I cannot see any need for a boom for it.

Back to the original question, if you have removed the boom and modified the sail so it works as you want without the boom, then absolutely get rid of the gooseneck stand (sounds much better than mast for this application) too and enjoy the additional foredeck space.
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Old 01-08-2020, 17:04   #25
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Re: Ditch the Self-Tending Staysail Rig?

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Originally Posted by fxykty View Post
Iím not sure why a staysail boom is necessary for a staysail. The only thing I can think of is that with a boom the staysail can have a longer foot. The boom enables the sheeting position and traveller to be forward of the clew and allows for self tacking. If this is the case, then the sail would have to be recut to shorten the foot and possibly raise the clew if the boom is removed and you still want self tacking.

We have a staysail for our cat and it sheets to the same sheet leads and traveller track as the self tacking jib on the main forestay. The staysail is self tacking. It is furling. I cannot see any need for a boom for it.

Back to the original question, if you have removed the boom and modified the sail so it works as you want without the boom, then absolutely get rid of the gooseneck stand (sounds much better than mast for this application) too and enjoy the additional foredeck space.
In low wind the boom keeps the staysail in form, helping channel wind into your larger headsail.
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Old 01-08-2020, 17:36   #26
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Re: Ditch the Self-Tending Staysail Rig?

I say ditch the boom and therefore get rid of that stubby little mast. Years ago Carol Hasse wrote about her views of club footed staysails. While loving the staysail she didn't have the same affection for the boom.
"A clubfooted staysail has its foot secured to a boom. Its foot may be attached to the boom (or club) with slides or lacing, but more commonly itís loose-footed (attached to the club only at its tack and clew) to facilitate trimming. While a club-footed staysailís self-tending ability is very useful when short tacking in winds over 15 knots, it has many disadvantages. For coastwise or bluewater cruising, I share yacht designer Bill Crealockís sentiments about boomed staysails: ďThe first splash youíll hear when youíre offshore is that of the club being thrown overboard

One of the main reasons I donít like clubs on staysails is that they can become a crippling or lethal weapon during an accidental jibe or if a sheet parts or is let go when crew are working the foredeck. Clubs dominate the area forward of the mast, interfering with anchoring, making sail changes, keeping bow watch, storing a dinghy, or simply lounging.

When the staysail sheet is eased for a reach or a run, the boom lifts, opening the leech and allowing the forces in the head of the sail to round the boat up and induce rolling. A vang, preferably led to the cockpit, will prevent this, but it isnít commonly rigged. As the wind increases, the staysail club also needs a preventer, although itís difficult to find the necessary leverage point forward of the staysail stay to lead a preventer that will keep the sail from jibing. You should run both port and starboard leads for the preventer to the cockpit in case the staysail is caught aback or its boom is dipping into seas when the boat is rolling. Back-winding the staysail when coming about in order to speed up or ensure a new tack or when heaving to also becomes a problem with a self-tending, club-footed staysíl. Youíll have to go forward and secure the boom to windward or use a preventer led aft to hold the staysail aback. Exposed to deck wash and high winds, the staysail boom could also be a liability when youíre forced to work to weather with a storm staysail in extreme conditions.A staysail designed for a boom may be freed from its club and sheeted instead to staysail sheeting tracks retro-fitted to the cabin top or deck, as Iíve already described. This track is generally necessary for sheeting a storm staysail anyway. Unless a vessel is over 60 feet and single masted, itís really quite easy to tack a staysail that isnít self-tending. In fact, it can aid in staying on the new tack when coming about if you keep it back-winded while you sheet the jib or genoa home."
Now, as for my own opinion, get rid of the staysail too. A sloop with adequate sail area has no need for a staysail. Despite all the advocates stating the claimed advantages, nothing they claim really matters much if your sailboat actually can sail, as most should, without the tiny staysail.

Except! It is a good way to reduce sail area when you have a big genoa on the headstay.
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Old 01-08-2020, 18:14   #27
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Re: Ditch the Self-Tending Staysail Rig?

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...Now, as for my own opinion, get rid of the staysail too. A sloop with adequate sail area has no need for a staysail. Despite all the advocates stating the claimed advantages, nothing they claim really matters much if your sailboat actually can sail, as most should, without the tiny staysail.

I assume we're talking about a cutter, not a sloop. Very different beasts.
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Old 01-08-2020, 18:52   #28
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Re: Ditch the Self-Tending Staysail Rig?

Wishbone then?
Self tacking AND self vanging jib
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Old 01-08-2020, 18:58   #29
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Re: Ditch the Self-Tending Staysail Rig?

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Originally Posted by Mike OReilly View Post
I assume we're talking about a cutter, not a sloop. Very different beasts.
Totally agree.

My cutter sails like a cow with a big genoa. Yankee and staysail combo and she sails like a dream.
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Old 01-08-2020, 21:12   #30
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Re: Ditch the Self-Tending Staysail Rig?

I have a 28 footer to which I fitted a roller furled staysail many years ago. It has a windsurfer boom on an additional stay 100mm forward of the furler stay. A single sheet from boom to a ratchet block on the clew is sheeted to a stand up block at the base of the mast (then to the cockpit), via another block hanging below the boom. The sail is heavy duty and the tack is almost at deck level. The boom is at right angles to the stays and, therefore, with the sail below it, acts as a vang to the sail. If I need to go forward while under sail I tighten the staysail and use the boom as a steady, waist height handrail, rather than the lower, thinner lifelines.
I do not have, a lethal foredeck club, two sheets, deck mounted tracks, track cars, barber haulers etc. etc. I do have a well behaved boom, self tending staysail/storm sail and I use it every time I go sailing. But, to get back on subject, Yes, I would remove an unwanted stump on my foredeck.
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