Barber Hauler Madness

[Dockhead]

Day before yesterday, I had a splendid sail, maybe the best of the year, from Uto in Finland to Sandhamn near Stockholm, Sweden -- about 85 miles. We had a good breeze from the E -- 20-23 knots, making a nice broad reach. I don't normally like broad reaching all that much, because you start to lose the lift component when the wind gets abaft the beam, so you slow down, and you have quartering seas which are hard to steer in, but in the Baltic the seas are bizarrely flattened, so in 23 knots of wind, hardly worthy of a F4. And over 20 knots, you don't worry that much about slowing down -- there's enough brute force in the wind to make up for the aerodynamic losses.

As luck would have it -- my starboard jib car broke early in the passage. Just when -- on a broad reach -- I need the yankee sheet led forward. Damn!

So I furl the yankee and slow the boat down. I take a piece of 12mm rope and tie it around the sheet with a bowline, and lead it through a cleat and back to a winch. Set the yankee again, fiddle with the barber hauler a bit, and -- wow! Suddenly the yankee has has a much better shape!

How can this be? Well, the barber hauler is further outboard than the regular jib car, which runs on a track on deck next to the doghouse – a couple of feet from the rail. Can it be that this bit of being further outboard makes such a distance? In any case, we’ve gained almost a knot, and are now romping along at 9 knots (average for the whole passage was 8.3 – a pace for a 200 mile day -- 85 miles in a bit over 10 hours). My Finnish crewman was so amazed and inspired by this, that he took another piece of 12mm rope, and tied it to the clew of my staysail. My self-tacking staysail (like all self-tacking sails in my experience) is never trimmed well, and is especially poor on this point of sail. He led this line back through a shroud turnbuckle to yet another winch (had to free up a winch normally used for the mainsheet traveler). We played with that and – presto! More speed!

We don’t touch the sails for the rest of the day. We just lay around the cockpit and soak up the incredible beauty of the sea, our billowing wake, the fine spray thrown up from the bow when we occasionally exceed hull speed, the play of the backdraft from our sails on the water in the lee of the boat. A magical day – why we sail!

I am totally amazed by the effect of these barber haulers – how can such a little difference in the sheeting angle make such an enormous difference? And how much better yet would sail shape be when running if I had a whisker pole?

[Jim Cate]

Good one, Dockhead. An outboard sheet lead can really help off the wind, as you now know. But I am somewhat astonished: a bazillion bucks worth of electronic baubles and no spinnaker pole/whisker pole? Mate, your priorities are skewed!

I think you know what you should do now... 'cause a pole will really enliven your deep angle sailing.

Cheers,

Jim

[Snowpetrel]

Love the way the new racing boats set up those floating jib leads, using a fairlead and barberhaulers and inhaulers. Very tidy and lets you set the lead exactly where you want it.

You could try barberhauling the yankee out to the main boom, sometimes the geometry works with a bit of creativity, opens the slot and acts like a preventer for the main to reduce any slatting.

Sent from my GT-P5210 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[bewitched]

It's all about keeping laminar flow over the sail.

if you don't barber haul or pole out, the air on the leeward of the sail doesn't make it to the leach, but stalls out and actually causes drag. So you are not using all your sail

Put tell tails on the leech of your headsails and trim to them and the middle set of forward tell tails when off the wind

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Good one, Dockhead. An outboard sheet lead can really help off the wind, as you now know. But I am somewhat astonished: a bazillion bucks worth of electronic baubles and no spinnaker pole/whisker pole? Mate, your priorities are skewed!

I think you know what you should do now... 'cause a pole will really enliven your deep angle sailing.

Cheers,

Jim

I have trying to figure out a whisker pole for years. It's a big problem on a boat this size - the cost and weight go up geometrically with length. My "J" dimension is more than 20 feet, so the whisker pole needs to extend out to 30' and be carbon - its megabucks. I complained about it in a couple of threads on here over the years.

I did install a track when I had my mast out last year. Maybe this winter I'll finally figure out the pole and pull the trigger.

[robert sailor]

Stick with barber hauling or throw a snatch block on the rail as a fairlead for the normal local sailing, moving it forward the further off the wind you are. If you decide to cross an ocean man up for a proper pole and you'll love it.

[donradcliffe]

Bit of sailing trivia--the Barbers were dentists who invented the haulers for their Lightning back in the '50s.

[nigel1]

Originally Posted by Snowpetrel

You could try barberhauling the yankee out to the main boom, sometimes the geometry works with a bit of creativity, opens the slot and acts like a preventer for the main to reduce any slatting.

Hi Ben

I have been leading the genoa sheet through a block on the toe rail on anything further downhill from a reach.

Read about barberhauling the fore sail out to the boom, never tried it. Any tips on a good place to start experimenting (best position for the lead along the boom?)

[Snowpetrel]

Originally Posted by nigel1

...Read about barberhauling the fore sail out to the boom, never tried it. Any tips on a good place to start experimenting (best position for the lead along the boom?)

Hi Nigel, I normally just make it up with whatever suits, being an experimenter at heart, but basically I put a block or fairlead at the end of the boom or near the end (you can use a strop with a prussic loop), and run a line though it. at one end it goes to a cleat on the boom, or down to midship cleats, or the reefing winch on the boom. The other end can be rigged many ways. The simplest is to just tie a bowline around the sheet and pull it out partway. You normally don't need to load up the boom end barber hauler all that much, the sheet still does much of the work.

The disadvantages of this are chafe with the bowline and needing to lead the sheet outside the lifelines, but it works for light airs and short legs. and rolling away the genoa is still easy. A snatch block can be used, but beware of it banging about.

A better long term method is to lead the lazy sheet to leeward, outside everything and well aft, run it though a bit of hose or a light fairlead and then tie the boom end barber hauler to the hose. Less chafe and not as lethal as a hard snatch block.

Yet another way is to rolling hitch the boom end barber hauler to the sheet and ease the sheet. this transfers all the load to the boom, and makes reefing the headsail harder, but works well for twins. I normally used this for my light drifter/reacher/twins running sail. To trim it you use the mainsheet. Not recommended for bigger boats as the loads can get pretty high.

I guess the ultimate would be an opening fairlead on a track under the boom that could be set to any distance outboard with the barber hauler, and gates in the lifelines to get the headsail sheet outboard of the lifelines...

This doesn't work as well with low cut sails, the boom is often too high. A higher cut yankee or reacher works much better. If you roll up some of a low cut sail it can help, for stronger winds.

This concept also works great for simple a downwind pole if the main is down. I used it as part of a (not identical) twins setup, light reacher to leeward, high cut genoa on furler to windward off the pole. Main up if broad reaching, and main down if dead down wind.

[sy_gilana]

You have to let out through the slot as much air as is coming in the foretriangle, if the back door (leech) is closed more than the front door (luff to mast) the air can't get through the slot/s. Nice speeds!!

[DoubleWhisky]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

I have trying to figure out a whisker pole for years. It's a big problem on a boat this size - the cost and weight go up geometrically with length. My "J" dimension is more than 20 feet, so the whisker pole needs to extend out to 30' and be carbon - its megabucks.

Hi, Dockhead
Why do You think a carbon whisker pole is necessary?

LC 15-27-405201 whisker pole from Forespar is good up to J = 21.5, is all aluminium and sells for $2,422 (complete).

Their LC 15-27-405203 combo aluminium/carbon sells for $3,731.

Their LC 15-27-800801 all carbon sells for $4,951

I'm not so sure if 26 lbs of weight difference is really worth $2,529

Personally I would prefer to buy two aluminium ones for the price and have a spare or double headsail setup...

Cheers,

Tomasz

[nigel1]

Hi Ben

Thanks for the tips.
My genoa is not high cut, but it is a 150%, so I can afford to roll some up and lift the clew a bit.

I have a spare light sheet which I usually use when sheeting the genoa through a block on the toe rail, so I can continue to utilise this, (I'll try some plastic hose over it to reduce the chafe)

The hauling end of the barber hauler from the boom can be lead to a midships snatch block and then back to cockpit winch.

Cheers

[Snowpetrel]

Hrmm 150% genoa's going to be hard, but worth a try.

One thing about your proposed setup is to watch the loads on everything. What can happen is with the barber hauler (BH) lead directly to the midships cleat, as the boom moves (fore and aft or up and down) it can tighten the BH. If the block is pulled all the way out it can really load things up, with no slack left, so leave yourself pleanty of slack and stabilise the boom with a preventer if its blowing.

Try it first in lighter airs to get a feel for whats happening, try sheeting in the main and easing it, while watching whats happening with the BH. Think about what would happen if you gybed or had to suddenly luff up. Making the line fast to the boom eliminates many of these problems, and takes the load off the gooseneck. But with some commonsense the setup you describe should work fine.

[Suijin]

Originally Posted by DoubleWhisky

Hi, Dockhead
Why do You think a carbon whisker pole is necessary?

LC 15-27-405201 whisker pole from Forespar is good up to J = 21.5, is all aluminium and sells for $2,422 (complete).

Their LC 15-27-405203 combo aluminium/carbon sells for $3,731.

Their LC 15-27-800801 all carbon sells for $4,951

I'm not so sure if 26 lbs of weight difference is really worth $2,529

Personally I would prefer to buy two aluminium ones for the price and have a spare or double headsail setup...

Cheers,

Tomasz

I have a full aluminum telescoping whisker pole and the thing is heavy as sin and a bear to manage solo to the point of requiring considerable caution when managing solo. I'm always delighted when I step on a boat and find a carbon pole as it's just night and day in terms of manageability.

I can't rationalize a new pole for myself but looking at the options from Forespar, the carbon/aluminum combination unit looks like the best of both worlds...lighter and more manageable than all aluminum but with the durability and UV resistance that having aluminum for the outer sleeve provides. Worth an extra $1300? If it means using it a lot vs. leaving it stowed against the mast, it just might.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by DoubleWhisky

Hi, Dockhead
Why do You think a carbon whisker pole is necessary?

LC 15-27-405201 whisker pole from Forespar is good up to J = 21.5, is all aluminium and sells for $2,422 (complete).

Their LC 15-27-405203 combo aluminium/carbon sells for $3,731.

Their LC 15-27-800801 all carbon sells for $4,951

I'm not so sure if 26 lbs of weight difference is really worth $2,529

Personally I would prefer to buy two aluminium ones for the price and have a spare or double headsail setup...

Cheers,

Tomasz

The Forespar ones which are not all carbon are not strong enough -- they fold up like pretzels. I'm surprised they still sell them. A 27 foot alu pole which is strong enough is just about impossible to handle for a short-handed crew. So it really just about has to be carbon to be useable, in this size. The bloody mast on my first boat was only about 27 feet long -- it's a big, long, stick, very unwieldy even if it's light enough, and if it's not light enough -- well, forget about it.

BTW, those are U.S. prices -- substitute pounds for dollars and you will be pretty close on the UK prices. They are very expensive! I was trying to find someone to fabricate one for me, but got overwhelmed with other stuff and gave up for last year.