Ball park figure for running rigging

[GILow]

My thanks to those that answered the question, just the info I needed.

Hoping to be in a position to make an offer this afternoon, this information will be a great help.

Matt

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

I have to note this...most marine chandeliers offer cordage of every make and description. Some truly marvelous stuff. Some truly marvelous prices too.

Question is?.....do you really need all this high tech stuff ??

I've always been a bargain basement shopper. Whether one type of rope stretches 0.005" more than the next is pretty much inconsequential to me.

In bygone years, none of this high tech stuff was around, but sailors managed just fine.

These days cordage makers tout a variety of rope for every purpose. It can takes days just to sort thru' all the literature, specs, etc.
With an open check book, you could certainly buy state-of-the-art cordage for every need on you boat. No two lines will be the same and zero's will likely roll of the edge of your checkbook.

I've managed just fine for 35 years on "salvage" store cordage selections with nary a problem. I don't think there is a single thread of dyneema, kevlar, or other exotic material on the boat.

'jes sayin'....

[MJH]

Originally Posted by GILow

Hi all,

Planning to make an offer on a new boat. Running rigging is toast.

Anyone feel like pulling a number out of the air to replace the running rigging on a conservatively rigged 44 foot cutter sloop from the late 70s?

I’m thinking it will need new sheets for the foresail and staysail, new main sheet, new reefing lines for the main, new main halyard and new furling lines for both foresails.

I’m looking at cruising grade ropes, not racing.

Any ideas, gut feelings, previous experiences welcome. Matt

Go to Rigworks.com to get recommendations on sheet and halyard lengths and rope diameters. Then select your line manufacturer (I use New England Stay-Set) and obtain cost per foot and multiply it out.

One of the first things I did when I bought my new-to-me boat was order up new halyards and schackles for the jib, staysail and main and that was $1100 14 years ago. For the rest of the running rigging I tried to think ahead and just bought a bulk 600' reel of 7/16" and still have some left...but the price has increased over 50%.

~ ~ _/) ~ ~ MJH

[IsolaNaida]

I purchased all the line for my 44' double headsail ketch. I purchased roughly 800' of 1/2" low stretch double braid for $1.85 Cdn. I think the price for spectra was closer to $5/ft. I am reusing my existing hardware and doing my own splicing. The rigging shop here charges $25 per splice. This was for halyards only but the allowance for the mizzen would cover making up any sheets. I also redid the standing rigging at the same time.

[El Pinguino]

I think this is the equivalent of what I have for halyards
https://www.donaghys.com.au/marine/p...ids/superspeed
as Southern Ocean have been taken over by Donaghys.

Ups the cost quite a bit.
https://ropegalore.com.au/12mm-spectra-yacht-ropes/

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by wingssail

Est, (Have to guess, no experience with furling) say 3' for turns on drum, length from drum to winch (30') plus 10' tail= 45' x2 =90' stayset 3/8'

Total 1/2 inch= 1 spool, $700
Total 7/16= 1 spool, $600
Total 3/8= 150; = $150

Total under $2000

Typically quite a bit more on the drum, maybe 20'.


Eye splice and reeving eye in the halyard $30


Eye splice in the mainsheet $20



Whipped ends 18 @ $5



I would use Endura or similar for the halyard which is going to add a couple hundred $$


Tack reef lines if you use them would add another 80' of lines

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

I've always been a bargain basement shopper. Whether one type of rope stretches 0.005" more than the next is pretty much inconsequential to me.

In bygone years, none of this high tech stuff was around, but sailors managed just fine.

If you want to maintain sail shape, halyard stretch matters.


In "bygone years" people used wire halyards, or used a Cunningham, or at least kept their halyard at the mast with its own winch to limit stretch and allow easy fine tuning, rather than running it back to the cockpit to a clutch.


The difference in stretch is several inches or more on a typical halyard.

I've managed just fine for 35 years on "salvage" store cordage selections with nary a problem. I don't think there is a single thread of dyneema, kevlar, or other exotic material on the boat.

'jes sayin'....

Enjoy your time on the water. We're all entitled to our methods.

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

just for grins, I checked our local marine store for some sheet line cordage....

"recommended" 1/2" dyneema double braid line is around $5.29/ft...breaking strength is 21,000 lbs.....seriously...21,000 lbs.....I like the 1/2" for good grip, but 21,000 lbs is a tad over the top...

nonetheless...for the 150' needed as described above...plus tax.....= about $850....just for the sheet lines..

Really? Someone suggested 1/2" dyneema for a sheet?


Dyneema has its uses but it is uncommon to see it used for a sheet, especially in such a large size. A halyard or reefing line, sure, but you drop down a size or two and the cost isn't much different.

[alctel]

It's worth getting some of the fancier stuff for your halyards at the very least - the lack of stretch of some of the intermediate stuff is worth it.

I also used it for my reef lines as I could go a lot thinner, which reduced weight aloft and the lack of stretch again was handy, and for my outhaul for the same reasons.

You don't have to go mega spendy with it either - there is a middle class of line aimed at 'performance cruisers' that is about half the price of the stuff that the racers use but it still has the MFP core for the strength and stretch resistance.

I used MLX but it looks like it got replaced with MLX3, which I have no experience of.

[Uncle Bob]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

Simple answer - not very much in the scheme of things.
Start with Wingsails handy calculator and do the maths Don't underestimate the length require for jib sheets

Then go to these people.

I think I've dealt with them in the past. ( They even sell 'Telstra' line - I thought that was only available by roadside scavenging.)

https://www.sydneyropesupplies.com.a...ded-polyester/


If when re-rigging you run out go back and buy more. Simples.

Buy a hot knife/rope cutter thingo at the same time.

My halyards are a bit fancier than basic polyester - 'Southern Ocean'? brand from NZ - lower stretch. Not hugely more expensive.

Bigger concern would be the standing rigging. Check the lowers and replace them if any doubts at all.

I have used sydney ropes as well and also https://www.splicingandcutting.com.au. Found them both to be good.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Jammer

Really? Someone suggested 1/2" dyneema for a sheet?

Dyneema has its uses but it is uncommon to see it used for a sheet, especially in such a large size. A halyard or reefing line, sure, but you drop down a size or two and the cost isn't much different.

I use 1/2" polyester covered spectra (dyneema is similar) for jib sheets. The loads on my boat when powered up are big and stretch is not helpful. When a puff comes and the sheet stretches and it is like letting the sheet out a couple of inches. When you are close hauled and fighting for every foot to windward you don't want to ease the sheet.

How big is big enough? The hand of the line is important. Probably 1/2 dyneema (10mm core = 25,000lb breaking strength) is far more than enough but it is hard to hold a smaller line.

And you don't want it to break. Yesterday we sailed in 20kts true wind speed with a 100% jib and the loads were stupendous. It took my full strength to grind in the last foot of sheet on a Barient 32 three speed winch and that sheet was taut. Tap it with the winch handle and it sounded like a base fiddle string.

For a cruising yacht of 44 ft I think 1/2 poly (about 5000lbs) would be sufficient. My 43' boat used to have 1/4 wire sheets which were rated at 6,400 lbs and we never broke one.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

I have to note this...most marine chandeliers offer cordage of every make and description. Some truly marvelous stuff. Some truly marvelous prices too.

Question is?.....do you really need all this high tech stuff ??

I've always been a bargain basement shopper. Whether one type of rope stretches 0.005" more than the next is pretty much inconsequential to me.

In bygone years, none of this high tech stuff was around, but sailors managed just fine.

These days cordage makers tout a variety of rope for every purpose. It can takes days just to sort thru' all the literature, specs, etc.
With an open check book, you could certainly buy state-of-the-art cordage for every need on you boat. No two lines will be the same and zero's will likely roll of the edge of your checkbook.

I've managed just fine for 35 years on "salvage" store cordage selections with nary a problem. I don't think there is a single thread of dyneema, kevlar, or other exotic material on the boat.

'jes sayin'....

To each his own. In my opinion, quality cordage is the next best use of money on a boat right after good sails. ALL of the running rigging on my boat is racing grade dyneema with the sole exception of the traveler and jib car control lines, and those will be upgraded this spring.

It need not be so expensive if you are not particular about color, make friends with a rigger, and buy reel ends. Since you can often go down a size, it might really not end up costing much more than polyester, and note that it lasts longer.

The tiniest amount of stretch in sheets or halyards has a huge and deleterious effect on sail shape. Besides providing much better sail shape, quality dyneema sheets are a joy to handle, being much lighter and more flexible than polyester. I went from 16mm polyester to 14mm dyneema for jib sheets, and it was one of the best things I did to my boat.

YMMV, of course.

[waterman46]

Originally Posted by Jammer

I did this on my Hunter 26 and while it is a much smaller boat I'll extrapolate a guess. I used Endura (NER's Dyneema core rope) for both halyards for low stretch and polyester double braid for everything else. I spent $700 on rope from Defender, including having them do eye splices, reeving eyes where needed, and whipping where the exact length wasn't critical. I did all the measuring and installed the new lines myself including a few splices and quite a bit of the whipping, and faffing around with the furler drum.

If you're not rigging a spinnaker and are reusing the existing foresail halyards then I would guess you'll end up with between $2000 and $3000 worth of rope if you're buying it from the cheap places and installing everything yourself.

If you are replacing shackles and blocks that will be more. I switched to soft shackles for most purposes as part of my project.

Of course if you call up your local rigger and have him come out and measure and do the work it will be quite a bit more.


One thing to watch is that some boats of this era had wire halyards. If that is the case you will probably want to switch to rope which may involve some work to replace sheaves with larger ones.

If you did it for $700 why would it cost the OP thousands?



For the OP, doesn't the masthead have dual sheaves fore and aft? Most do. Keep the old halyards in place as spares and drop new ones for your everyday use. Spare halyards are a very nice thing to have.

[waterman46]

Avoid Spectra. One time I installed Spectra for running backstay tails to the winch (using wire above it to the mast). Big mistake, in a couple years the outer layer shredded off. This was before we sailed south, and I guess it can't handle the sun in San Francisco. But Dyneema is incredible - I've had the same 6mm Dyneema lines in use for my dinghy's aft lifting bridle, for at least 5 years, in the tropics, and it shows no deterioration.



I would recommend a soft multistrand braid type of line for the mainsheet if you are rigged with only running tackle and not a winch (we are old school here). Easier on the hands.

[GILow]

Originally Posted by waterman46

If you did it for $700 why would it cost the OP thousands?

…

A reasonable extrapolation from a 26 footer to a 44 footer. Possibly conservative really.