Toilets -- Again

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by HeinSdL

That Planus looks awfully complicated, more things to break at some point, I would say? I guess what I am really saying, there is a preference for a sh***y manual Jabsco (pun intended I suppose) on my boat with its two moving parts, some rubber seals which may or may not work 100% but are easily replaceable, combined with some muscle power...

Jabsco manual pump has exactly one advantage -- it's so cheap and easy to install that you can easily keep an entire spare pump assembly in spares and just swap it out if there is any problem -- which I do, since it drop in fits in place of my Jabsco electric one. The Raritan manual one is much better.

But I would never use one of those except as a "limp home" spare for the electric. They are flimsy and unreliable. And all manual pumps are much, much easier to clog than electrics, plus without maceration, worse for the marine environment, and lastly, hardly anyone, and certainly not guests, pumps enough with those to properly flush through the pipes after every use so that you don't get scale buildup.

So, no thanks. Only electric for me!

As to complexity -- this type of electric toilet is actually simpler than the cheaper ones. Has a very large (like 600 watt) electric motor driving a much larger macerator pump. Unlike with the cheap electric toilets, this assembly is not combined with the flush water supply.

The flush water is provided by other means -- in this case it comes from the boat's fresh water system, controlled by a solenoid valve. If you want to have seawater flush, then you add a separate supply pump.

Simple and large components compared to small and complex -- that's why this type of toilet is much more reliable than the cheaper ones like Jabsco, Sea Era, etc.


One thing which may look like complexity in my photos is the bidet system. I have removed all this, since it, unfortunately, interferes with the discharge connection. I might have a go of reinstalling it before I finish installing the toilet, however, as I'd sure like to have the function.

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Unlike with the cheap electric toilets, this assembly is not combined with the flush water supply.

The flush water is provided by other means -- in this case it comes from the boat's fresh water system, controlled by a solenoid valve.

Simple and large components compared to small and complex -- that's why this type of toilet is much more reliable than the cheaper ones like Jabsco, Sea Era, etc.

What cheaper electric toilets? What you've described is the way Jabsco Quiet Flush freshwater toilet works. Reading suggests the Raritan Marine Elegance, ditto.

-Chris

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by ranger58sb

What cheaper electric toilets? What you've described is the way Jabsco Quiet Flush freshwater toilet works. Reading suggests the Raritan Marine Elegance, ditto.

-Chris

When I talk about cheap electric toilets, I'm talking about all the ones I've been using for the last 14 years. The ones with small, cheap, integrated flush and discharge pumps. Raritan Sea Era, Jabsco conversion, etc.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

When I talk about cheap electric toilets, I'm talking about all the ones I've been using for the last 14 years. The ones with small, cheap, integrated flush and discharge pumps. Raritan Sea Era, Jabsco conversion, etc.

FWIW, the Sea Era comes in 2 versions now. 1 with the integral intake pump, 1 without it (can be had with an external intake pump or rigged for fresh water).

[malbert73]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

When I talk about cheap electric toilets, I'm talking about all the ones I've been using for the last 14 years. The ones with small, cheap, integrated flush and discharge pumps. Raritan Sea Era, Jabsco conversion, etc.

Purpose built electric toilets are amazing. Elegance has been bulletproof for me. Solenoid for fresh water flush so zero- I mean zero- smell in head. And in 6 years (probably 300 nights onboard with family of 4- no clogs whatsoever.

[Dockhead]

So, follow-up to all this:
I installed the new Planus Arctic toilet, which was a difficult and involved process.

It was very difficult to connect the plumbing without access from behind the toilet. Also the plumbing inside the toilet is so densely packed, that even with access it would be hard to do.

Mine came with a built-in bidet, which I would have LOVED to have work, but there was just no way to connect this plus everything else, so I removed the tap and all the pipes for the bidet -- just to have some chance at getting to the other connections.

But I did manage it in the end, somehow.

Despite certain drawbacks, I like this toilet a lot. Some observations:

1. It is very large, quite a bit larger even than the full sized Jabsco it replaced. It fits OK in my quite large heads compartment, but would not fit in anything much smaller. The flip side is it's really comfortable.

2. The porcelain and glazing is really high quality and really nice looking, and altogether the installation is much more attractive, as everything is enclosed inside the toilet and no pipes or anything else is visible. Will be easier to keep clean, too.

3. I made a mistake by buying the full height one. Most boat toilets, even with "full sized" bowls, are reduced height. The place for the toilet in my heads is on a platform, so designed for the reduced height type. Not really a big problem (at least for me with reasonably long legs), but I would do it differently if I could do it over again.

4. The functionality is superb. The controller has two buttons -- before and after use. The first one puts water into the bowl. The second one evacuates the bowl, with a lot of force, then follows up with a second evacuation a while later. This leaves the bowl dry. How there is no smell with the dry bowl I don't know, but there isn't. The motor for the macerator pump, and the pump itself, are very large and heavy and powerful, several times larger than the ones on my previous toilets, so the operation time for evacuating the bowl is much shorter -- one powerful gulp instead of lengthy noisy grinding. I presume and hope that this means that it will be even much harder to clog, too (although I can't complain about the previous ones, which I never managed to clog in many years of use -- fundamental advantage of electric toilets, which macerate right at the exit of the bowl).

5. The electrical connections were also not all that straightforward to make. The wiring harness has Molex or some other kind of modular connectors, but Planus doesn't supply the corresponding connectors for your wiring or even the nomenclature. I did not feel like spending the time tracking the connectors down, so I adapted some spade connectors, which is not optimal. Additionally, the connector between the control panel and brain module is not a good one -- doesn't lock into place.

6. It's very quiet compared to the previous ones. No supply pump helps too -- this one is a fresh water toilet which uses the boat's normal pressure water system for supply.

In sum I think this type of toilet is a pretty big leap forward compared to the cheap electric toilets I used previously (Raritan Sea Era, Jabsco Electric Conversion). For anyone ordering a new boat -- definitely specify the better type of toilet despite the cost.


The biggest drawback of the Planus (besides high cost) is the very awkward plumbing connections. Don't know if other high end electric toilets like the Sea Elegance are the same, but this is worth considering for anyone considering using one of these toilets.


It was an awful lot of trouble to install it, but at this point I'm thinking it was really worthwhile.

[Wings888]

The Planus on the boat we just purchased takes 5 presses of the button to put water over the discharge hole. This takes FOREVER. The dealer isn’t much help. Can you tell me if this is normal? It is set on the maximum setting with the adjustment post on the back of the control. Also, FYI. one piece of paper towel from the galley my wife used to clean the toilet broke the macerator. . $500.00!! Thanks for any help.

[BAD ORCA]

Originally Posted by Wings888

The Planus on the boat we just purchased takes 5 presses of the button to put water over the discharge hole. This takes FOREVER. The dealer isn’t much help. Can you tell me if this is normal? It is set on the maximum setting with the adjustment post on the back of the control. Also, FYI. one piece of paper towel from the galley my wife used to clean the toilet broke the macerator. . $500.00!! Thanks for any help.

Is your fresh water pump and fresh water hose diameter powerful and large enough? I have a Marine Elegance with fresh/sea water flush. The seawater connections to the thru-hull are all 3/4 dia hose and within six feet of the toilet. The toilet really fills up with a fair amount of water (over a half gallon) when i use the non-water saver flush. My freshwater hose is only 3/8 diameter and my old freshwater pump is barely up to spec recommended by Raritan, and 10+ feet from the toilet. When i use the same )non water saver flush) it only fills up about 1/3 of what it does when using the sea water setting.

It still works perfectly though i just add water with the other options on the flush controller first until i get a chance to add larger diameter hose and a better pump.

[BAD ORCA]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

So, follow-up to all this:

The biggest drawback of the Planus (besides high cost) is the very awkward plumbing connections. Don't know if other high end electric toilets like the Sea Elegance are the same, but this is worth considering for anyone considering using one of these toilets.


It was an awful lot of trouble to install it, but at this point I'm thinking it was really worthwhile.

Marine Elegance has similar issues with all the plumbing being stuffed in the back. Its a fantastic toilet but mine took me two months to install with many custom work done under and behind it to get it all sealed up and watertight since its in the head/shower.

I got the angled back and there was still a 2" gap behind it even after cutting a giant hole in the fiberglass pan to get it slid as far back as i could. Bolts ended up behind the wall of the shower pan so had to cut an extra large access door to get it in and out. Also, slight nitpick, these toilets have no cover for the open backside which will allow shower water to get onto the wiring. I had to make a custom plexiglass cover for the back and Sikaflex it to the toilet to get it all watertight.

I got the 'short' model and still had to raise the teak floorboard up and inch and a halt to get flat-footed

[Bowdrie]

Originally Posted by BAD ORCA

Is your fresh water pump and fresh water hose diameter powerful and large enough?

Ah-ha, you've brought up an important point.
Reminded me of a job where I had to make a modification to the fresh water system.
The manual for the toilet specified X-pressure at Y-volume.
The existing pump had the pressure but not the volume.
Mounted a matching pump beside the existing one, plumbed them in parallel.
Used a relay and big wire so no voltage drop.
The toilet operated flawlessly.
Another happy customer.

[Wings888]

Thanks. Ours has a whale gulper 220 seawater pump that is clearly not correct. Can anyone tell me what pump works, that’s not too noisy?

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Wings888

The Planus on the boat we just purchased takes 5 presses of the button to put water over the discharge hole. This takes FOREVER. The dealer isn’t much help. Can you tell me if this is normal? It is set on the maximum setting with the adjustment post on the back of the control. Also, FYI. one piece of paper towel from the galley my wife used to clean the toilet broke the macerator. . $500.00!! Thanks for any help.

Yikes. That sounds awful.


Concerning the water level problem, it sounds to me like the flow rate is out of the parameters of the Planus timer. Either that, or you've mixed up max with min. But I would say it's flow rate -- if you say it takes "forever". Maybe you've got a restriction somewhere? That's what I would concentrate on.



Mine works fine, giving the right level with the control set at just about half way.


As to the macerator -- that's not encouraging. Are you sure it wasn't a wet wipe? Those things are fibrous and would wreck any macerator.


In any case, mine worked perfectly during our summer cruise this year and I really liked it. It's head and shoulders better than previous toilets on board. So far so good.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Wings888

Thanks. Ours has a whale gulper 220 seawater pump that is clearly not correct. Can anyone tell me what pump works, that’s not too noisy?

Should have read this before writing the last post -- there's your problem!


Those boats I've seen which use seawater flush with this type of toilet use a regular fresh water supply pump. These typically are ok for seawater as well as fresh. E.g.: https://www.spxflow.com/johnson-pump...9-3-5-4-0-5-2/


One reason which I am using fresh water rather than sea for flushing is this system makes me nervous, as a flooding risk. If you have a leak in your fresh water system, you can lose your fresh water supply but you can't sink the boat. If you have a problem with one of these, you can lose your boat.