Ogo (composting) toilet - any users?

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by thinwater

Seems like a lot of fiddly plastic bits under the lid that aren't worth the bother. But perhaps they won't give trouble. The overall design is thoughtful, but the end result is still too expensive for what it is; a slightly different spin on a thunder mug with less overall complexity.

Open to suggestions for a compact Porta-potti sized compost head that is less expensive and less complex. I've thought about DIY but in the end, not a great design (no agitator) and still several hundred bucks plus time to fabricate. $700 isn't so bad given the limited production run they have.

Peter

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Manateeman

EPA document 832-F-99-066 Simplified version of the issues.
............
It’s very rude.
Captain Mark

Very serious issue. Many families with young children have been jailed recently over disposing of diapers in the trash...oh wait, back in the real world, it's a non-issue.

Of course, if no one on your boat has a communicable disease, there won't be any in the bin. If someone on your crew does have such a disease, the toilet is not likely to be the transfer source for the rest of the crew.

I do agree it's rude to hijack a thread with unrelated info.

This looks like a possible nice alternative but as others have mentioned, an electric system seems to unnecessarily complicate the design.

A question: does the spare bin have a lid? One of the nice things with the c-head is you can put a lid on the 5gal bucket and store it until somewhere convenient to dispose of it.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Training Wheels

Okay, first off I know nothing about composting heads, but am curious. Aren’t composting heads actually misnamed and are more accurately “desiccating” heads? Do these “composting” heads actually compost, and get hot? If they actually “compost”, then wouldn’t you have to wait 1 or 2 weeks after the last use before emptying? As someone who has seen first hand compost piles burning, would the head be a fire hazard?

Yes, they do compost. The catch is most people do not wait for the process to complete. You will still get a reduction in volume as the waste decomposes.

Too many people get hung up on the distinction. If you want to produce compost for use in your garden, get a separate bin at home and dump the bin in there to let the process finish. If it's a food garden (as opposed to flowers), yes, you want to make sure the process is complete.

No risk of a fire. You want the pile moist but not wet. If it's dry, the composting will stop.

[mvweebles]

I have an uncanny habit of clicking-through links when people post. If no link is posted, I sometimes google. Never ceases to amaze me how many times the link bears near-zero semblance to the claim. I know this extends the off-topic discussion, but I am hoping the information is useful down the road.

For example, when I googled "EPA document 832-F-99-066", first reference was this 1999 EPA circular still referenced on current EPA info sites "Water Efficiency Technology Fact Sheet - Composting Toilets" While geared towards land-based (and thus larger) systems, it talks in glowing terms about the benefits of a system that separates liquids from solids. Building on this is a 132 page research paper out of Purdue University - section 2.5.1 describes low-temp compost systems which include those such as Nature's Head, et al. Importantly, agitation greatly improves aerobic decomposition.

This bears emphasis as "these are not composting heads" always comes-up on these threads as if there is a bait/switch going on to fool people into believing something they shouldn't. Here is the direct quote:

Low-temperature composting is used in cases where constant addition to a compost pile is not available and regular maintenance of a composting toilet is not an option or desire such as most commercial and homemade composting toilets. Another name for this type of toilet is a mouldering toilet. Typically, they operate at room temperature and compost a mixture of feces and bulking material such as sawdust.

The paper goes on to discuss pathogens and transfer (2.6.2). In 1st world countries such as US, pathogens are extremely rare. As to transfer from an infected person, the most common problem is where drinking water becomes contaminated (think: Ganges River in India). For direct transfer from an infected person, you must have contact with and ingest their feces - in other words, don't drink waste-contaminated water; don't use the compost on vegetables; and wash your hands after handling garbage or using a toilet (or working on your head system). Very low risks and hardly unique to compost head users.

My takeaways? First, confirms separating liquid and solid is needed for these types of compost-heads. Second, due to shortened 'compost' time, agitation is needed to enhance aerobic action. Guessing this is the short coming of DIY systems. Third, the really nasty pathogens are a problem in third-world countries and quite rare in developed countries. Finally, pathogen or germ transfer is mitigated by known sanitation procedures.

In short - nothing to see here. Move along. Compost heads are MSD Type III devices. Buy a compost head if you want. Don't buy one if you don't want. But please, stop criticizing the decision of those who do. The science is not on your side. The risks are low and not unique to compost heads (and are manageable regardless). The benefits are high and are, in the eyes of adopters, much greater than the nuisance/risk factors of the alternatives. It may not be your cup of tea, but that's okay.

Peter

[JAFO]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

Never ceases to amaze me how many times the link bears near-zero semblance to the claim.
...
In short - nothing to see here. Move along.

Thanks for the heads-up!

(pun intended)

[piranha]

Originally Posted by tamicatana

I think it relevant to state that I am now in my seventh year of use, five years of which are full time, two pax, C-Head. My data is empirical, not conjectural.

I love my C-head as well. Forget about agitators and use biodegradable bags. Throw away immediately.

[Heron Reach]

You should take a look at the Boon Jon composting toilet by C Head. I have been using one for 5 years and love it.

[Craig_B]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

Very serious issue. Many families with young children have been jailed recently over disposing of diapers in the trash...oh wait, back in the real world, it's a non-issue.

Of course, if no one on your boat has a communicable disease, there won't be any in the bin. If someone on your crew does have such a disease, the toilet is not likely to be the transfer source for the rest of the crew.

This is exactley what i was thinking.

The only pathogen that would end up in the toilet would have to come from the person making the deposit.

The pathogen would have to be inside you already to be transferred into the compost media. They dont come out of thin air and if they do we have much bigger problems.
In short. Whatever grows in the toilet, you put it there. Dont have any and none will end up in the toilet.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

Open to suggestions for a compact Porta-potti sized compost head that is less expensive and less complex. I've thought about DIY but in the end, not a great design (no agitator) and still several hundred bucks plus time to fabricate. $700 isn't so bad given the limited production run they have.

Peter

The lack of mixing is not as much of a problem as you would think. For example, C-Head makes a no-churn version.


You are right about the short production runs.


Yes, fabrication will run a few hundred $$. I paid ~ $110 for the seat and diverter; seems like a lot, but it makes the top pro. The way mine is installed only the top sheet is visible, so I made no effort to fair the salvaged fiberglass battery box I used for the base. I just adjusted it to size and painted it; very light, water tight, and very strong. No mix, but I have used it for weeks at a time, with no odor (the testing was in our house--my wife would have informed me!!). The tricks are proper use, the right absorbent, and (hint from the C-Head founder--I had a nice talk with him) a small sachet of pool bleach hanging inside the box (very, very slow bleach release is enough to kill the odors).


A MAJOR advantage of no-churn is that the waste is already in a bag! Just pull the bag, double bag, and dispose. No handling or dumping the unit. Although mix is probably better for people who use them for long periods, if you only use it for a few days at a time, without question no-churn is easier. No-churn is better for day sailing and weekends.


(I added instructions under the lid)




And I am not anti-holding tank. I have a nice system on the PDQ, I like to for cruising with more people, and would not replace it. Horses for courses, I say. I see strengths to both approaches.

[Supers0nic]

The interior looks near impossible to keep clean. The solids bucket is too small. The liquids bottle is proprietary and expensive to replace. The red indicator light is difficult to see on most boats. And why use electricity when a manual crank works as well.
No thanks. I’ve been using my C-Head full time for 6 years and it has none of these problems.

[Boulter]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

And I've heard of Separett as well: https://separett.com/en/urine-dirver...7&pageNumber=1

I have a prototype using the Separett. This allowed me to discover the smallest box I can make to contain everything. This prototype will eventually be the shop head. This uses a Home Hardware 19 litre pail and a 4 litre methanol jug or similar for the urine container. The seat height is 21" which is a bit over the higher limit of tall toilets which seems to be 19". The box is 18-3/4 deep, 15" wide, and 20" tall. If I use instead the 15 litre pail which is 1-3/4 inches shorter, I can get the seat height to 19", but then the methanol jug will likely be a touch too high.

The next unit made will likely be a free standing unit to be placed in the pilothouse in some fashion as a second head. This unit will likely be quite similar to the prototype but cosmetically nicer. To accomodate shorter crew, I'll likely use the smaller container and get a 19" seat height.

The third application is to replace the forward wet head, but this application has considerable issues in that it will be impossible to get the seat height under about 34" above the floor making something at home 2000km away from the boat. So some kind of retractable step would need to be incorporated. On site, with access to a workshop, better could likely happen, but this isn't my reality right now. Plus "better" won't ever get to 19". So some lift from a step will always be required.

Sorry about the rotated images. They were the right way up in my gallery, but ended up rotated and I don't have the patience to figure out how to fix this.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Boulter

I have a prototype using the Separett. This allowed me to discover the smallest box I can make to contain everything. This prototype will eventually be the shop head. This uses a Home Hardware 19 litre pail and a 4 litre methanol jug or similar for the urine container. The seat height is 21" which is a bit over the higher limit of tall toilets which seems to be 19". The box is 18-3/4 deep, 15" wide, and 20" tall. If I use instead the 15 litre pail which is 1-3/4 inches shorter, I can get the seat height to 19", but then the methanol jug will likely be a touch too high.

Looks great. You'll have to let us know how they perform, but I'm sure they'll be just as good as the thousand-dollar versions.

[alctel]

It's great that there seems to be a recent explosion of new entries onto the market recently, really shakes things up

[SVTatia]

I have a prototype using the Separett. This allowed me to discover the smallest box I can make to contain everything. This prototype will eventually be the shop head. This uses a Home Hardware 19 litre pail...

[/QUOTE]

Interesting as I am also building my own because none of the availabe ones will fit in my small space. Mine will be 17"D x 15"W x 15"H.
Have you given consideration on how to install/use an agitator? I am designing a mixer to work in a 5 gallon bucket.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by Boulter

Attachment 250999

Attachment 251000

Attachment 251001

I have a prototype using the Separett. This allowed me to discover the smallest box I can make to contain everything. This prototype will eventually be the shop head. This uses a Home Hardware 19 litre pail and a 4 litre methanol jug or similar for the urine container. The seat height is 21" which is a bit over the higher limit of tall toilets which seems to be 19". The box is 18-3/4 deep, 15" wide, and 20" tall. If I use instead the 15 litre pail which is 1-3/4 inches shorter, I can get the seat height to 19", but then the methanol jug will likely be a touch too high.

The next unit made will likely be a free standing unit to be placed in the pilothouse in some fashion as a second head. This unit will likely be quite similar to the prototype but cosmetically nicer. To accomodate shorter crew, I'll likely use the smaller container and get a 19" seat height.

The third application is to replace the forward wet head, but this application has considerable issues in that it will be impossible to get the seat height under about 34" above the floor making something at home 2000km away from the boat. So some kind of retractable step would need to be incorporated. On site, with access to a workshop, better could likely happen, but this isn't my reality right now. Plus "better" won't ever get to 19". So some lift from a step will always be required.

Sorry about the rotated images. They were the right way up in my gallery, but ended up rotated and I don't have the patience to figure out how to fix this.

My "prototype" was way uglier than that, based on a big plastic storage bin! I used it to test absorb ants and anti-odor agents before I built a boat version, and for that it worked very well. Had it been for a shop application, however, a sturdy plastic bin for the bottom is probably a good idea. Cheap, easy to clean, and about the right size to hold the required internals.