Manual vs electric head?

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

That sounds like you had an unusually good manual head. The Raritan PHEIIs I had originally were a pain, whether you operated them electrically or switched to the manual handle. They worked, but they needed at least a partial rebuild every 1 - 2 years to keep them working well. And they were never very tolerant of any kind of solid waste or more than a small amount of toilet paper, particularly if they weren't freshly rebuilt.

Raritans were the best manual toilets I had. They flush better with lever action rather than plunger, and seem to be more durable. The Jabsco are worse, both in operation and in terms of reliability -- don't really last a year before you need to mess with the seals. In my experience none of them will go 2 full years without some messing with. The good thing about the Jabsco is that they are dirt cheap and come in storable boxes, so you can keep a couple of complete spares on board so instead of taking them apart when they stop working, just swap over in 5 minutes and you're good to go. You can mess with the old one at your leisure, or just toss it.


All my electric toilets have been much more reliable than that. I got 3 or 4 years out of my Sea Era before it self-destructed. The replacement has been going for 5 years without the slightest problem. I just replaced the forward Jabsco conversion which was 8 years old, and had given no trouble during those 8 years.


I've never (knock on wood!) had a clog with any electric toilet. They are probably 100x harder to clog. Which makes sense if you think about the implications of pumped macerated slurry through your sewage pipes rather than complete unmacerated waste. Basically an electric toilet grinds up potential clogs before they ever hit your sewage lines.



Worth it for that alone!! I would never go back to manual.

[Cyrus Safdari]

I am in the process of redoing my head and am faced with the same decision however apart from electric v manual I have to also consider composting options. The factors being considered are electric draw, water usage, reliability and ease of repair, now add whether you want another seacock too

There are more factors to consider For example how many people aboard? What kind of sailing do you do? Realistically, offshore, a solo sailor uses a bucket whilst viewing the majesty of the seas, then tosses the contents overboard. The head is used to store wet weather gear">foul weather gear. So a porta-potty type arrangement is sufficient for a solo long term cruiser. Or is it?

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by CarlF

I've maintained a dozen brands of heads in my 40 years of cruising - including Wilcox Crittendon and a venerable Lavac. The best by far is my current electric Raritan Elegance.

This is not a conversion - conversions are always a compromise - the head was obviously designed from a blank sheet of paper. I've had two of these for 7 years as has a friend with a sister boat. Other than routine joker valve replacement, neither of us have had a problem, clog, repair or even maintenance. All of my previous heads needed attention at least once a year - to do nothing for 7 years is amazing.

What follows sounds a bit like an ad but it's taken me some years to appreciate how well Raritan rethought the marine head.

1. The macerator is right at the start of the pipe at the bottom of the bowl. You can reach it with a gloved hand. Since everything is macerated as it leaves the bowl there really is no risk of a clog farther back. The macerator is so thorough that I have no TP rules for guests. It would certainly chew through a tissue if not a piece of paper towel.

2. The macerator is just a spinning blade. Very quiet. The boat's fresh water pump supplying the flush water is louder.

3. It flushes more thoroughly than any head I've had. The flush waster swirls around the bowl cleaning it and the macerator removes everything in one flush. There's never stuff "floating" in the bottom of the bowl.

4. It's small and comes in both a tall and slanted version (to fit on a step and/or against the hull). It has a full skirt so cleaning the outside is just a quick wipe. No hoses or valves to clean around.

5. The bowl is non staining porcelain and the seat is a standard household oval seat comfortable enough for reading.

6. The holding tank fills at half the rate of my past heads using their electronic "Smart" control. This control has buttons for a "full" flush and a short flush (pee). Guests especially tend to overflush a regular head filling the tank quickly. This prevents it. While the control is $200, I figure it paid for itself in the first year in reduced pump out charges. I was worried about failure for this control - "smart" and boats don't go together very well. But the four Raritan controls (between mine and my friend's two) have been completely reliable.

7. I have their SeaFresh salt or fresh flush water selector but if I had to do it again I'd save that money. I just flush with fresh water which greatly reduces the smell and doesn't foul the hoses. As we have a water maker, the 3 or 4 gallons the head uses per day is unnoticeable. And if the water maker failed on a long voyage, I could always flush the head with a bucket. This would be much less of an inconvenience than no fresh water for all the other uses of fresh water on the boat.

8. It has two joker valves inline. They both have to leak before you need to go in and replace them.

9. And the price isn't "premium" - $629 at Defender right now (without control).

There are other heads that offer some of these advantages but I don't know of another that has all of them.

That's quite a testimony! And lines up with what others have told me.



I don't expect my Sea Era to last much longer. When it breaks, I might very well replace it with an Elegance.


The Sea Era I cannot recommend for anyone other than weekend sailors -- it is extremely lightly built, and clearly not made for long-term usage. They have a known issue with the macerator blade contacting and destroying the pump housing -- happened to me.


I think you are right that a conversion is inevitably a compromise. I think I will go with Elegance next.


Fresh/seawater selection is also something which would be very useful to me, as restrictions on direct discharge increase even in Europe and I use my holding tank more often.

[Pelagic]

Thanks Carl for the detailed review on the Elegance..... It will fit!

[MicHughV]

Sometimes the problem with a marine head is not the toilet itself, but the discharge hose and the the U-shaped siphon break loop.

Over the years, as I've changed boats, heads, etc, I've often had to deal with a discharge hose and the siphon break loop that were caked on the inside with crud, reducing a 1.5" inside diameter to a mere 0.5". The little vent on the siphon break is usually the first to get clogged.

If you beat on it hard enough by whacking it against a tree or something after removal, you can sometimes break the crud loose, but much simpler to get a new hose.

Don't throw away the head until you've had a chance to inspect the discharge hose.

[Dogscout]

I installed 2 Jabsco Lite Flush electric heads in the boat last year. Only issue is having to post a note so the guest knows to put water in the bowl first. Regarding filling the tank to soon. Yes about 20 -25 flushes fills the tank. Everything has been macerated so it flows out without clogging. Somewhere I read about putting some cooking oil through the system occasionally to lube everything. I'll give that a go if I ever get back to Greece.

[Captn_Black]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Raritans were the best manual toilets I had. They flush better with lever action rather than plunger, and seem to be more durable. The Jabsco are worse, both in operation and in terms of reliability -- don't really last a year before you need to mess with the seals. In my experience none of them will go 2 full years without some messing with. The good thing about the Jabsco is that they are dirt cheap and come in storable boxes, so you can keep a couple of complete spares on board so instead of taking them apart when they stop working, just swap over in 5 minutes and you're good to go. You can mess with the old one at your leisure, or just toss it.


All my electric toilets have been much more reliable than that. I got 3 or 4 years out of my Sea Era before it self-destructed. The replacement has been going for 5 years without the slightest problem. I just replaced the forward Jabsco conversion which was 8 years old, and had given no trouble during those 8 years.


I've never (knock on wood!) had a clog with any electric toilet. They are probably 100x harder to clog. Which makes sense if you think about the implications of pumped macerated slurry through your sewage pipes rather than complete unmacerated waste. Basically an electric toilet grinds up potential clogs before they ever hit your sewage lines.



Worth it for that alone!! I would never go back to manual.

Yea, my Jabesco is leaking pretty badly now, and unfortunately you can't just buy the piston and head seal in one kit. However, the entire pump mechanism is only $50 to replace, so not too bad, and only a few $ more than buying the two kits I would need to fix it.

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by Cyrus Safdari

I am in the process of redoing my head and am faced with the same decision however apart from electric v manual I have to also consider composting options.

I'm personally not a fan of composting heads so I don't generally follow associated issues. Here in Annapolis composting heads are not permitted on City docks or moorings. Too many people where dumping used peat in public trash cans - enough so it became a noticeable problem and City employees expressed health concerns.

If there is pushback here in Annapolis there could well be elsewhere.

Originally Posted by Dogscout

Only issue is having to post a note so the guest knows to put water in the bowl first.

I have little notes for guests all over the boat. There is a welcome packet and an initial tour. The latter includes a clean spare joker valve for show and tell, and explanation of what it does, and a promise that if someone clogs the toilet I will stand behind them and give advice and hand them tools. Works like a charm.

[Captn_Black]

Originally Posted by Auspicious

I have little notes for guests all over the boat. There is a welcome packet and an initial tour. The latter includes a clean spare joker valve for show and tell, and explanation of what it does, and a promise that if someone clogs the toilet I will stand behind them and give advice and hand them tools. Works like a charm.

You block it, you fix it. Standard.

[slug]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Raritans were the best manual toilets I had. They flush better with lever action rather than plunger, and seem to be more durable. The Jabsco are worse, both in operation and in terms of reliability -- don't really last a year before you need to mess with the seals. In my experience none of them will go 2 full years without some messing with. The good thing about the Jabsco is that they are dirt cheap and come in storable boxes, so you can keep a couple of complete spares on board so instead of taking them apart when they stop working, just swap over in 5 minutes and you're good to go. You can mess with the old one at your leisure, or just toss it.


All my electric toilets have been much more reliable than that. I got 3 or 4 years out of my Sea Era before it self-destructed. The replacement has been going for 5 years without the slightest problem. I just replaced the forward Jabsco conversion which was 8 years old, and had given no trouble during those 8 years.


I've never (knock on wood!) had a clog with any electric toilet. They are probably 100x harder to clog. Which makes sense if you think about the implications of pumped macerated slurry through your sewage pipes rather than complete unmacerated waste. Basically an electric toilet grinds up potential clogs before they ever hit your sewage lines.



Worth it for that alone!! I would never go back to manual.

This Actana macerator Fw flush toilet is 26 years old

No problems

[peghall]

I have little notes for guests all over the boat. There is a welcome packet and an initial tour. The latter includes a clean spare joker valve for show and tell, and explanation of what it does, and a promise that if someone clogs the toilet I will stand behind them and give advice and hand them tools. Works like a charm.


I LOVE it!!!! <LOL>

[David B]

Originally Posted by ranger42c

FWIW, I found ours got louder at around the 10 year mark... and then developed a slight leak at the shaft seals anyway. 15-minute fix to replace the pump/motor assembly, and it got back to quiet again.

-Chris

They are probably not too bad if mounted with sound transmission in mind. Trouble with ours (and many I suspect) is that the base of the toilet is mounted hard onto a fibreglass moulding, which is then fixed to the hull. That moulding, and then the hull, makes a great sound box.

If yours is quiet, I am wondering how the base is mounted? One day when I am feeling keen, I might unbolt the toilet base from the boat and see how much difference it makes. Maybe some isolating bushes would be worthwhile - maybe …..

Regarding service - yes, I keep a spare complete pump on hand. The shaft seal is easy, but If the shaft has worn or been pitted etc, it can be repaired at leisure. If I was designing it, I would have a thin PTFE sleeve on the shaft. I have one on the boat at the moment with a shaft that has issues. Might bring it home one day and re-machine for a sleeve to fit on it, but freshwater is the answer I have found.

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by David B

If yours is quiet, I am wondering how the base is mounted? One day when I am feeling keen, I might unbolt the toilet base from the boat and see how much difference it makes. Maybe some isolating bushes would be worthwhile - maybe …..

Ours is mounted on a platform above the wood sole. The platform looks like some kind of plastic, but may just be fiberglass. I suspect it's there partly to add the correct height, partly to put the bowl on a water-impervious base. Dunno if sound would have been a consideration.

-Chris

[northwestsailor]

We have Lavac toilets. They come usually with a manual Henderson or look a like manual diaphragm pump with instructions how to plumb in series an electric one too. We have that system. Manual is for emergency use only. Electric flushing is by time so always complete thorough and plenty of sea water to flush the waste out. Could not be happier with the system as others noted above.

[David B]

Originally Posted by ranger42c

Ours is mounted on a platform above the wood sole. The platform looks like some kind of plastic, but may just be fiberglass. I suspect it's there partly to add the correct height, partly to put the bowl on a water-impervious base. Dunno if sound would have been a consideration.

-Chris

Thanks Chris - when we can get back to our boat, might try a few things.