Hot shower options good enough for the girlfriend to move in

[dannc]

Originally Posted by GILow

There are a range of very efficient shower heads on the market now.

My WELS 4 shower head runs between 4.5 and 6 litres a minute, depending on which mode you choose.

Pretty guilt-free shower really.

I THINK I mentioned earlier in the discussion, that our hand held shower head uses a bit less that 1 US gallon a minute, on it's highest flow setting. I have measured the flow.

But it bares repeating to check the flow rate of your show head. We have no problem using our shower head so the low flow is not a problem. I have been shocked at how much water a "normal" shower head wastes/uses when showering at hotels and even on boats.

Originally Posted by BlueH2Obound

...
"According to a national study of residential water use, the average American shower uses roughly 17 gallons of water and lasts for around 8 minutes."
..

That is really interesting and something I had wondered. My guess was our showers at home might be 10 minutes long. Maybe. Depending. So we use maybe 8 gallons if our shower is the average of 8 minutes. We certainly could use less.

Later,
Dan

[jtsailjt]

[QUOTE=dannc;3355209



That is really interesting and something I had wondered. My guess was our showers at home might be 10 minutes long. Maybe. Depending. So we use maybe 8 gallons if our shower is the average of 8 minutes. We certainly could use less.

Later,
Dan[/QUOTE]



A few years ago we had fairly typical teen boys who were taking very long showers so we decided to try to come up with a “fair” limit to put on them. So I started timing my own showers to get an idea and found that even including shaving in the shower, I was only in there about 5 minutes even though I wasn’t really trying to save water. So we put a 10 minute limit on them but they still complained, but that’s a whole other story....

I think part of the motivation for taking long showers in a boat or at home is that people are trying to get warm initially. If the shower surface and air feels cold it’s hard to turn off that stream of nice warm water because now that you’re wet, you know it’s going to feel even colder than when you first got in the shower. So, if the shower area can be toasty warm, it’s a lot more likely that people will turn the hot water off just as soon as possible after wetting themselves down.

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by jtsailjt

A few years ago we had fairly typical teen boys who were taking very long showers so we decided to try to come up with a “fair” limit to put on them. So I started timing my own showers to get an idea and found that even including shaving in the shower, I was only in there about 5 minutes even though I wasn’t really trying to save water. So we put a 10 minute limit on them but they still complained, but that’s a whole other story....

I think part of the motivation for taking long showers in a boat or at home is that people are trying to get warm initially. If the shower surface and air feels cold it’s hard to turn off that stream of nice warm water because now that you’re wet, you know it’s going to feel even colder than when you first got in the shower. So, if the shower area can be toasty warm, it’s a lot more likely that people will turn the hot water off just as soon as possible after wetting themselves down.

From a sailing background with minimum water tankage and no taps or desal, showers are short on our vessel even though we carry several tonne of water.
Enough to wash salt and or sweat off and usually every 3rd day

If the wife's long hair needs washing she usually has a salt water shower and rinses in fresh.
We have a large rain shower head on the top deck and run the deck wash hose up to connect.
Can spend as long as you like under that and good on hot days in waters that are a bit "bitey"

We live in sub tropical so 90% of the time its cool we want and only in winter does the HW tap get used for showers

[dannc]

Originally Posted by jtsailjt

A few years ago we had fairly typical teen boys who were taking very long showers so we decided to try to come up with a “fair” limit to put on them. So I started timing my own showers to get an idea and found that even including shaving in the shower, I was only in there about 5 minutes even though I wasn’t really trying to save water. So we put a 10 minute limit on them but they still complained, but that’s a whole other story....

I think part of the motivation for taking long showers in a boat or at home is that people are trying to get warm initially. If the shower surface and air feels cold it’s hard to turn off that stream of nice warm water because now that you’re wet, you know it’s going to feel even colder than when you first got in the shower. So, if the shower area can be toasty warm, it’s a lot more likely that people will turn the hot water off just as soon as possible after wetting themselves down.

I have not set a timer to see how long it takes for us to shower, but I would guess five minutes is usual. Ten minutes just seems to long but I "guess" at ten minutes for a worst case water usage. DRIVES me NUTS when one of the kids takes a BATH!

When I designed our house, both bathrooms have heaters so the space can heat up for Shower Time. One of the bathrooms is actually three rooms, one room with the sinks, off of which is a toilet room and a bathroom, meaning a room with just a bath tub. The bathroom is really small and the heater really warms it up quickly.

Having a way to heat the head is on the boat wish list.

Later,
Dan

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by dannc

I...Having a way to heat the head is on the boat wish list...

Actually its quite hard on most boats, including mine. The Espar had no ducts in the shower area and the electric, even at the dock, wouldn't heat the area.

The worst was when we lived in Seattle and even in the coldest part of winter I always showered on the boat. Occasionally the condensation formed ice icicles on the metal parts of the Bomar Hatch right over my head in the shower. Judy often took trips to Florida to see relatives during those periods.

I was glad for my propane instant water heater; endless hot water.

[Bobolina]

I like this idea. Could also go a step further and build a small solar collector. I made a 4’x8’ one in college out of Home Depot parts for $300 to make a hot tub, but could probably get away with much smaller panel (2’x2’) for less than $100. Free hot water from the sun, circulate the water with a cheap garden pump.

[captlloyd]

Originally Posted by Bobolina

I like this idea. Could also go a step further and build a small solar collector. I made a 4’x8’ one in college out of Home Depot parts for $300 to make a hot tub, but could probably get away with much smaller panel (2’x2’) for less than $100. Free hot water from the sun, circulate the water with a cheap garden pump.

Just find about a five gallon plastic or metal container and paint it a dark color if you are in a sunny area. I am on Isla Mujeres presently and everyone has huge tanks on their rooftops for solar heating. And I mean hot, be careful !

[jtsailjt]

Originally Posted by captlloyd

Just find about a five gallon plastic or metal container and paint it a dark color if you are in a sunny area. I am on Isla Mujeres presently and everyone has huge tanks on their rooftops for solar heating. And I mean hot, be careful !

The OP is in San Francisco where everyone does not have rooftop solar water heaters for the simple reason that they know it wouldn’t get hot up there on many days. Fog in the bay is common and temps can be quite chilly. He’s trying to get his girlfriend to move in with him so he wants to make her comfortable, and that means making hot water available to her day or night, whenever SHE wants to shower, not just on days the weather gods cooperate and make enough hot water for one shower late in the day. In your climate a black colored water tank might work great but his climate is much different and he needs a reliable source of hot water. Since he’s tied up to a dock with AC power connected to his boat, not anchored out in some remote area of the world, the most obvious solution is to simply add a water tank with both an electric element and a engine coolant heat exchanger in it just like about 90% of yachts already have. There’s a reason that’s the choice most boatbuilders go with, it works very well in all climates, both at the dock and while underway.

[jtsailjt]

Originally Posted by Simi 60

Doesn't need to be a dock queen
We have a 47 gallon 240v unit onboard with a 1.8kw element.
Haven't been in a berth in near 5 years.

Boat does have good solar, inverter, batteries and if needed, genset.

Saying that, I am almost wishing for the day it dies so as to get one around 13 gallons

Mine is a 12 gallon one and I find that size is a good compromise. I usually run the genset when more than one person wants to shower and find that starting with a full tank of hot water, with the water heater turned on, even with our 110V, 1.5kw element, by the time the first person gets showered and their hair dried and gets dressed, etc. and the next person (that’s usually me) gets shaved and in the shower, there’s still plenty of hot water, and if we all shut off water flow when not rinsing, several people in a row can get showered. Shower time, with the genset on is also when I bulk charge the batteries (solar/wind tops them off) and run the Watermaker so the genset stays pretty well loaded up too and when showers are over and batteries pretty well charged we have more fresh water aboard than before we started.

[jtsailjt]

Originally Posted by wingssail

Actually its quite hard on most boats, including mine. The Espar had no ducts in the shower area and the electric, even at the dock, wouldn't heat the area.



.

Depending on where your shower is located in your boat, since you already have an espar heater onboard, inserting a Y and adding a few feet of ducting so your shower has a heater outlet in it isn’t usually a very difficult task. For a boat in a climate where heat is regularly needed, I think the few hours this modification takes is well worth the trouble.

[captlloyd]

Originally Posted by jtsailjt

The OP is in San Francisco where everyone does not have rooftop solar water heaters for the simple reason that they know it wouldn’t get hot up there on many days. Fog in the bay is common and temps can be quite chilly. He’s trying to get his girlfriend to move in with him so he wants to make her comfortable, and that means making hot water available to her day or night, whenever SHE wants to shower, not just on days the weather gods cooperate and make enough hot water for one shower late in the day. In your climate a black colored water tank might work great but his climate is much different and he needs a reliable source of hot water. Since he’s tied up to a dock with AC power connected to his boat, not anchored out in some remote area of the world, the most obvious solution is to simply add a water tank with both an electric element and a engine coolant heat exchanger in it just like about 90% of yachts already have. There’s a reason that’s the choice most boatbuilders go with, it works very well in all climates, both at the dock and while underway.

If you will notice, I was replying to a comment Bobolina made, not the original OP. Bobolina lives in Southern California.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by jtsailjt

...the most obvious solution is to simply add a water tank with both an electric element and a engine coolant heat exchanger in it just like about 90% of yachts already have. There’s a reason that’s the choice most boatbuilders go with, it works very well in all climates, both at the dock and while underway.

There are reasons we did not go this route:

1. If you are weight and space sensitive the hot water tank is intrusive and heavy. On a much bigger vessel where weight is not an issue it makes more sense.
2. Heating things with AC power (at the dock) is expensive.
3. It might make sense if your vessel is motoring or using a genset on a daily basis, but for a vessel which usually sails and has no genset, it is less useful
4. Most importantly, we wanted hot water even while anchored or under sail. A key part of our strategy was to make sure our vessel was just as comfortable off the dock as it was at the dock, so as not to disincentivize leaving the dock.

On another point, Espar, aside from the routing issue, installing a hot air duct from the Espar is no longer possible for us since we removed the Espar due to reliability issues, but it does not matter, we live in the tropics.

Showering for us is a matter of turning the tap, any time or any place. Our propane water heater is instant and endless, (as long as the water supply holds out).

It may not be right for all boats, but for a smaller boat, or one which needs to be kept light, propane is an alternative to engine/AC hot water tank.

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by jtsailjt

...the most obvious solution is to simply add a water tank with both an electric element and a engine coolant heat exchanger in it just like about 90% of yachts already have. There’s a reason that’s the choice most boatbuilders go with, it works very well in all climates, both at the dock and while underway.

But it does not work well for most boats while at anchor or sailing, which is why many cruising boats want an alternative system that works well when not tied to a marina or motoring every few days.

[jtsailjt]

Originally Posted by noelex 77

But it does not work well for most boats while at anchor or sailing, which is why many cruising boats want an alternative system that works well when not tied to a marina or motoring every few days.

What you say might be true if the “most boats” you refer to are exclusively boats without gensets. Since the size of cruising boats are constantly increasing, “most boats” now have room for a genset and are equipped with one. I have a genset and haven’t spent a night at a dock in years and it works perfectly for me. While “sailing” I don’t think I’ve hardly ever spent a day without running the engine for at least an hour or so, which is plenty of time for all aboard to have a hot shower. Either there’s too little wind for part of the day/night or the wind is strong and from off the bow or I need it to leave/enter a harbor. So I really don’t know what you’re thinking about when you say a traditional electric/heat exchanger water tank doesn’t work. It works great for me!

Unless you have a cat covered with solar panels and have almost constant sunshine, the other two options are propane or diesel. But it seems to me that showering daily while using propane to heat the water will require the boater to either carry a LOT of explosive propane onboard or always be in search of your next propane “fix.” I think a diesel powered water heater makes more sense but since the OP is at a dock, a traditional electric/heat exchanger using engine coolant makes the most sense.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by jtsailjt

...it seems to me that showering daily while using propane to heat the water will require the boater to either carry a LOT of explosive propane onboard or always be in search of your next propane “fix.”...

Just a point of clarification: We are not always be in search of our next propane “fix.” We have two 4.5 gallon propane bottles. For us a tank lasts 21 days when we ARE NOT conserving water, and ARE taking daily showers, (we also cook at home a lot). So at least every six weeks we need to find a refill station. We are usually in a port more often than that for other shopping and we find a place. In 35 countries we have not had a problem. We have always found a way to refill our bottles, although in a few places we had to be creative.

Here in Mexico our bottles cost $4.00 to refill. So about $5/month. Other places it has been more. but propane is easy to use and cheap. For us it works.