Espar Hydronic Durability

[DeepFrz]

Originally Posted by john61ct

Perhaps with such a smaller living space, and only running during winter rest stops, the **actual** running hours per year is much lower?

You have to be kidding. These guys are on the road a lot and MUST take 10 hr. rest breaks. Many of them suggest to run the heater for a few hrs. at least once a month during the summer. The truckers seem to like them. The only beef I've heard about the hydronic units is that they use quite a bit of power. They do need cleaning on an annual basis though.

[VanIslandGuy]

We have an espar on our boat as well, but aren't living onboard. Problem free now for two full seasons. We were told to consider using the smallest size unit rather than the largest that would give us the required BTU's for our volume of airspace. The reason is to keep the unit working hard with much less idling which keeps carbon fouling to a minimum. Much like a diesel engine these things like a bit of a load/demand to work their best and stay trouble free.

If we had to do it again, I would have gone with Huricane, only because they have an electrical element as well as as diesel burner to heat the coolant. This means on shore power you can have the same heat without burning any fuel. At the time it seemed too pricey but I can see the value we gave up by going cheaper.

[Dymaxion]

These things were designed to provide engine coolant heat and some cabin heat, prior to engine startup. They were never intended to be used as furnaces. The water pumps, if hydronic, are small and plastic etc. The fuel (dosing) pumps are tiny magnetic vibrating ones. The flame detection sensors fail and the units shut down, even though they may be running properly. Safety first rules.

Propane instantaneous water heaters can serve the same purpose if you build a heating loop with an external pump. They are a bit more robust. The heaters switch on if water flows past a little turbine wheel. If your thermostat calls for heat it starts the pump which in turn gets the boiler to fire. If you open the hot water tap, tied into the heating loop, same thing happens. You need to run pressurized CW into the loop if using the boiler as a "combi" unit, meaning heat+HW. Ran my 2200 sqft house for several years on a huge 200,000 btu system. They get down to $125 for a portable 3-5,000 btu unit for camping. I'd consider building a 10-20,000 btu based system around one of them rather than the pricey Webasto/Espar units.

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by DeepFrz

These guys are on the road a lot and MUST take 10 hr. rest breaks.

you missed my point.

Just like a fridge's compressor load, there is a thermostat so it only is actually X% of that ten hours. Therefore in a larger space runtime% may be 10x in a small one.

In any case I would take the manufacturer at their word, why would they negatively exaggerate the short lifespan?

[bcboomer]

Originally Posted by john61ct

you missed my point.

Just like a fridge's compressor load, there is a thermostat so it only is actually X% of that ten hours. Therefore in a larger space runtime% may be 10x in a small one.

In any case I would take the manufacturer at their word, why would they negatively exaggerate the short lifespan?

I purposely got a heater at the limit of what Espar recommend. The D5 runs a lot to heat our boat and has never carboned up. Sensors have been fine. The water pump is pretty light so I would expect to replace it annually. This one has been noisy for a year. I expect the burner will be the major failure but I don't know that for sure.

I couldn't possibly carry enough propane for a month of cool weather.

Hurricane is probably the best albiet pricey answer but it would require quite a bit of work to fit. The espar is tiny in comparison.

[J.Kitchens]

Heating a boat does not have to be complicated.

My CD30 gets t-shirt and shorts warm at the dock with a $15 heater and the electric bill only goes up a few dollars. On a larger boat two $15 heaters may be needed. But everything is dry and the boat is comfortable.

Away from the dock, I do without. If I wanted heat away from the dock I would use a Dickinson bulkhead mount stove. I have never had one on my CD30 but I have used them with great success on many other boats. They are simple and work incredibly well.

A friend in Chile has a 40' wooden sailboat. He effortlessly keeps it heated with a Dickinson stove that has been in non-stop service for years. He has a coil in it that is used to heat water and is his only source of hot water.

If you want a fancy system then continue putting up with the unreliable mess you have. If you want heat get a bulkhead mount diesel stove. Why over complicate things?

[transmitterdan]

I think 3,000 hours is a long time for these heaters. Even in a truck that’s probably a few years of active heating. My experience is that they don’t last as long as we would like.

[bcboomer]

Originally Posted by J.Kitchens

Heating a boat does not have to be complicated.

My CD30 gets t-shirt and shorts warm at the dock with a $15 heater and the electric bill only goes up a few dollars. On a larger boat two $15 heaters may be needed. But everything is dry and the boat is comfortable.
We're not stupid. Heating a 40 ft boat is a little different in the Salish Sea than in Texas. In our marina the water temperature is probably 25 degrees colder than Kemah. On the dock we can use our Canframo heaters to keep the air toasty warm. Right now it is 24 (75 for you-all) but the floor is bloody cold.

Away from the dock, I do without. If I wanted heat away from the dock I would use a Dickinson bulkhead mount stove. I have never had one on my CD30 but I have used them with great success on many other boats. They are simple and work incredibly well.
Again, look at the temperature differences. We don't want to just heat the main cabin. We want comfort throughout and we're not willing to put up with the diesel smell that seems to be inevitable with bulkhead diesel heaters. Come up here and see how long you'll stay away from the dock without heat. We tried and don't like it!

A friend in Chile has a 40' wooden sailboat. He effortlessly keeps it heated with a Dickinson stove that has been in non-stop service for years. He has a coil in it that is used to heat water and is his only source of hot water.
Probably works for him but, we chose a different route.
We don't have the space for a diesel stove and don't want the hassle of operating one. I'll bet he has to deal with condensation in his lockers and fights mold, we don't.

If you want a fancy system then continue putting up with the unreliable mess you have. If you want heat get a bulkhead mount diesel stove. Why over complicate things?

Because, when we lived on dirt, we had in-floor hydronic heat and love it. We chose the Espar partly because Espar advertise it as the solution that would work for us. Just because we live on the water we don't have to live like peasants.

[bcboomer]

Originally Posted by DeepFrz

There has to be something wrong with the install. Truckers use these same units all the time for years and often in much colder weather. In the real cold weather truckers use the hydronic units as many of the newer trucks don't idle well in cold weather.

Hmm, something wrong with the install? Then why does it work perfectly except for the times when the Espar stops working? The heater has worked for longer than Espar designs it for. My concern is that these heaters are so poorly designed that their service life is very short but Espar sells them as a viable solution to the problem of heating a boat in a cool climate.

[J.Kitchens]

Originally Posted by bcboomer

Because, when we lived on dirt, we had in-floor hydronic heat and love it. We chose the Espar partly because Espar advertise it as the solution that would work for us. Just because we live on the water we don't have to live like peasants.

Just because I'm in Texas doesn't mean I've always been in Texas. Some of us actually use our boats to travel. In Texas I don't even keep a heater on my boat.

When I lived on dirt I had a tile roof and granite countertops and I loved it. That doesn't mean they makes sense on a boat.

I didn't realize using a bulkhead mounted heater classified people as peasants. At least they are warm peasants.

[KeelMe]

Originally Posted by bcboomer

Because, when we lived on dirt, we had in-floor hydronic heat and love it. We chose the Espar partly because Espar advertise it as the solution that would work for us. Just because we live on the water we don't have to live like peasants.

This fella buys the cheapest 40' sailboat ever made, now he's high class.

[J.Kitchens]

Originally Posted by bcboomer

Because, when we lived on dirt, we had in-floor hydronic heat and love it. We chose the Espar partly because Espar advertise it as the solution that would work for us. Just because we live on the water we don't have to live like peasants.

Originally Posted by KeelMe

This fella buys the cheapest 40' sailboat ever made, now he's high class.

Hmm... I guess a big smile after saying something SH#*Y makes it okay.

You really do learn something every day.

[bcboomer]

Originally Posted by KeelMe

This fella buys the cheapest 40' sailboat ever made, now he's high class.

Now THAT'S professional.

[KeelMe]

It's honest.

[bcboomer]

Originally Posted by nwdiver

Do yourself a favour and switch over to a hurricane........

Marine Heating Systems – Itrheat

You already have all the tubing in place they need simple maintanace and work for years.....mine is 8 going on 9, 4 as full time livaboard in the PNW....

I'm sure you're right. Good to hear a positive recommendation. When it fails the Hurricane will be the replacement. I was going to install one in the beginning but the Espar is so compact and claim to be able to do the same job.