Do you really need pressure water?

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

But this is my perspective. This is why I'm curious what people mean when they suggest that not having pressure hot water is somehow the equivalent of "camping." This is so far from my reality of actual camping, that I really don't understand.

It's certainly not all the way to tents, etc. But there's the camping idea needing to work to do anything with water (heating on a stove, pumping manually, etc.). Compared to being able to just easily wash my hands after using the head, take a warm (and short) shower, or have a water system that can handle pushing through a good set of filters so we can have good drinking water from the tank.

[Foswick]

I mean, it's all pretty simple. If you want the benefits of hot water, you need water and that water needs to be heated. How you heat it is a matter of convenience and practicality.

And if you have water that is stored in one place, and you need that water somewhere else, you need to get the water from point A to point B. How you move it is also a matter of convenience and practicality.

We've lived for months on a boat with only a hand pumped faucet from our fresh water tank. We heated water either in the sun or on our alcohol stove. Did we suffer in any way? Of course not.

One of the nice things about cruising is that you are on a boat moving slowly (if at all). Tasks that you just don't seem to have time for on land suddenly become welcome diversions. At my house, there is no way I have time to heat water, fill a shower bag, hoist it, and shower. In fact, if it takes more than a few seconds for the water in the shower to get hot, I get impatient and start to think I need an on-demand heater.

On the boat, I have all day to take the shower ... or maybe I'll do it tomorrow.

To anyone that feels that hot water tanks and/or pressurized water are important on a boat, my question is, what's your hurry?

On our boat, I actually enjoy the fact that, when one of us washes our hands, the other pumps. I don't see this as inconvenient, but rather as a way to take a tiny thing and make into a thoughtful act, even if only in some small way.

Now, for full disclosure, we are currently buying a new boat and one of the requirements is that it have hot water and a proper shower. So, I can't claim ideological purity.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

It's certainly not all the way to tents, etc. But there's the camping idea needing to work to do anything with water (heating on a stove, pumping manually, etc.). Compared to being able to just easily wash my hands after using the head, take a warm (and short) shower, or have a water system that can handle pushing through a good set of filters so we can have good drinking water from the tank.

Thanks for explaining rslifkin. Good to know. Seems an odd demarcation point to me, but to each his own.

Originally Posted by Foswick

One of the nice things about cruising is that you are on a boat moving slowly (if at all). Tasks that you just don't seem to have time for on land suddenly become welcome diversions. At my house, there is no way I have time to heat water, fill a shower bag, hoist it, and shower. In fact, if it takes more than a few seconds for the water in the shower to get hot, I get impatient and start to think I need an on-demand heater.

On the boat, I have all day to take the shower ... or maybe I'll do it tomorrow.

Nicely put. It's exactly how I (we) approach our cruising lifestyle as well. There's rarely the need to rush. Who cares if it takes a few extra seconds or minutes to pump some water, or heat it up. The point, for us, is to go slow. To live intentionally, and deliberately. Not just to rush from A to B, or indeed to bring the hectic land lifestyle aboard.

If we just wanted to emulate land life, there's a better way: stay on land.

[Kettlewell]

If we just wanted to emulate land life, there's a better way: stay on land.

^^This^^ To me it's all about connecting with the natural world that we have become so disconnected from in our landlife cocoons. But, we all have our comfort and discomfort points we need to deal with. Pressure water is not so complicated that I feel strongly one way or another about it. If your boat comes with it you might as well keep it going--I wouldn't rip it all out. But, I would certainly think about how you will access the water in your tanks if the pressure system is broken.

[NorthCoastJoe]

I live upstate NY in a house where I had to fetch water all winter. Get out the sledge hammer and 2 buckets every morning. Bust ice and haul water into the kitchen from a nearby stream. One bucket went on the wood stove for hot water.

Was I camping? Nobody told me I was camping.

[mvweebles]

I think a better question is what percentage of cruisers still have foot pumps and use them regularly.

There are a lot of good reasons to be very conservative with water usage. We've spent the last 6-months cruising down Pacific Mexico and while we have a 40gph watermaker, we can't always make water due to being in a marina. We don't want to add Mexican water to our water tanks (or even in the US, chlorinated water that will run through our watermaker). So we can end up with very harsh conservation requirements.

We have two 100-gal water tanks. I've seriously considered using one for "Mexican" tap water (fine for washing, showering,). The other for water maker water. Even though we're a powerboat, have considered a foot pump to force conservation when needed.

Camping? Perhaps. I see it as adapting to the environment.

[JPA Cate]

Yes, I really like our foot pumps. One full pump = 1/2c. fresh water. One learns how to make a penurious slow flow, if flow is needed (rinsing dishes, for instance), or to give just a tiny soft bump, for a 1/2 tsp, (to moisten a toothbrush). It takes 10 pumps for the water for Jim's coffee and my tea, and so on.

On our previous boat, we had two 25 gallon water tanks, and the watermaker was for emergency use only. We never ran out of water. We did have a 5 gal. water tank, also for emergency use, and a 5 gal. sun shower for rinsing off after salt water washing. We also had salt water to the galley, for pre-washing of dishes.

Yes, adapting to conditions. Not camping, but making do with what we had.

Ann

[bgallinger]

Good grief. It's just not that weird to have hot and cold running water!!

[grantmc]

In this part of the world the portmanteau 'glamping' is used/heard, meaning glamour camping or camping with style.

Foot pumps on my boat all the way. They’re fantastic. I would never go to the hassle of upgrading to pressure water. It's too easy for a tap be left open and all that precious water goes down the plug hole. And I’ve seen that a couple of times on deliveries with inexperienced crew at least two water tanks are an essential feature on a boat.

Originally Posted by mvweebles

... We've spent the last 6-months cruising down Pacific Mexico and while we have a 40gph watermaker, we can't always make water due to being in a marina. We don't want to add Mexican water to our water tanks (or even in the US, chlorinated water that will run through our watermaker). So we can end up with very harsh conservation requirements. ...

I find this an interesting comment Weebles, and thanks for offering the advice. I often hear people running water makers at anchor in Fiji in bays that are open sewers. And I’ve mentioned/warned cruisers that the water is unsafe, but most seemingly have endless faith in their machines to filter out the wees, poos and dead things. And sure I understand that the filtering is extremely fine, but anchored in a channel when a village is pumping straight out from the toilets and sinks of 5,000+ people, kind of yuks me out.

[Mike OReilly]

I have both manual and pressure water systems on my boat. My potable water uses an electric pressure pump. And my seawater tap is managed by a foot pump.

The pressure water system came with the boat. On a previous boat I removed the pressure pump in favour of manual pumps, but since we now filter our drinking water, I don't think a manual pump can generate the force needed.

If I didn't want the filters, I'd probably convert to full manual, but I don't find the pressure water system to be concerningly complex. I just carry a few spare pumps. They're easy to swap out, and pretty cheap -- cheaper than quality foot pumps at this point.


Hot water tanks are more complex. I really see no need to have a dedicated hot water system on our boat. Hot water is needed for cleaning; both self and dishes. It literally takes seconds to a few scant minutes to heat up the water needed to do these jobs. Contrast this to the added plumbing and tankage needed to parallel the land-based always-hot water systems, and it just seems unnecessarily silly.

[Fore and Aft]

Mike I always reckon people get camping and hiking confused. I have missed more than one hot shower hiking, but never camping. In the old days we used to have a Jabsco pump with a shower fitting mounted on a piece of plywood that was wired into a cigarette lighter. It didn't matter if you were standing next to the car or in the cockpit as long as you boiled the jug you had a hot shower. We were roughing it camping compared to our friends who had every convenience imaginable at their campsites.
We have a foot pump for the head sink and saltwater pump. The rest is electric, with a heat exchange hot water.
Cheers

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by grantmc

In this part of the world the portmanteau 'glamping' is used/heard, meaning glamour camping or camping with style.

Foot pumps on my boat all the way. They’re fantastic. I would never go to the hassle of upgrading to pressure water. It's too easy for a tap be left open and all that precious water goes down the plug hole. And I’ve seen that a couple of times on deliveries with inexperienced crew at least two water tanks are an essential feature on a boat.



I find this an interesting comment Weebles, and thanks for offering the advice. I often hear people running water makers at anchor in Fiji in bays that are open sewers. And I’ve mentioned/warned cruisers that the water is unsafe, but most seemingly have endless faith in their machines to filter out the wees, poos and dead things. And sure I understand that the filtering is extremely fine, but anchored in a channel when a village is pumping straight out from the toilets and sinks of 5,000+ people, kind of yuks me out.

We stopped in Mazatlan MX for a couple days and stayed 6-weeks (well, two weeks we're flying home for some routine appointments). We loved it there but the marina is deep into a lagoon that does not flush, so making water was a no-go. While Mazatlan was an extreme example, we found ourselves frequently challenged to make water either due to poor water quality or avoiding chlorinated water. Watermaker is great and I wouldn't be without one while cruising, but it's not a cure-all.

Water in third world countries even with a watermaker aboard is an interesting topic and I've never seen it deeply discussed on this forum. I think there's a case to be made for a foot pump for initial rinse, even on a powerboat. Places like Mexico simply do not seek to provide potable water - the govt provides water but it's bare basic and is not claimed to be drinkable. We have only found one dock that provided RO drinkable water (La Paz). So if find a place you like and want to stay for a while, water is a hassle. Being able to conserve your 'good' water with a raw water source would be super handy.

[dlj]

I've had a similar attachment on my kitchen sink faucet and find it is extremely helpful to conserve water with a pressurized water system. I've found a lot of folk don't know about these.

https://jxtcompany.com/product/right-off-pro-vs/

I've had boats without pressurized water, they work also. I like my pressurized system, but I use it with the above - really helps save a lot of water. In fact, I find it is better than a foot pump.

dj

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Fore and Aft

Mike I always reckon people get camping and hiking confused.

Sounds about right. Hiking, or in my case, canoe or kayak tripping, is how one moves around. Camping is how one lives after the movement has stopped.

On my camping trips, we never hot-showered, although I suppose we could have using a hanging shower. As my camping trips always involved water travel, it was far easier (although a lot brisker) to jump into the river or lake with a bar of soap.

Any cruising boat, beyond perhaps a 16-footer, is far from camping. It may not be luxury hotel life, or even have all the amenities of a fancy land home, but most boats allow a lifestyle that is nothing like actual camping -- even ones with foot pumps and no hot water on demand.

Originally Posted by dlj

I've had a similar attachment on my kitchen sink faucet and find it is extremely helpful to conserve water with a pressurized water system. I've found a lot of folk don't know about these.

https://jxtcompany.com/product/right-off-pro-vs/

Nice suggestion. This raises the consideration of how refined one's taps are when using pressure water. With some taps, it is hard to select and maintain a tiny flow rate. Other taps are excellent at it.

With my galley tap I can easily set it to a trickle flow which means I can be very frugal with water usage, even with the pressure water system. Manual taps are usually even easier and better in this regard. With manual pumps (hand or foot) it is easy to regulate flow. But if you have a good faucet, you can do the same with a pressure system.

For the record, we use less than 1 gallon/person/day on our boat; so typically a bit less than 2 gallons/day (two adults). This is with our pressure water system. We don't make any great efforts to conserve water. We use as much as we need for health, cooking and hygine. But we just use it very consciously and judiciously.

We've also set up our boat to minimize its water needs. The biggest potable saver is having a salt water tap at the galley. We do most of the dish washing with salt water, and then rinse with fresh. The other big savings are a cockpit shower (usually using rain water), and a composting head, which uses almost no water.

[wholybee]

No, you don't need a pressure water system and I leave mine off when I am on passage and relying on the water in my tanks. I don't have a water maker either, so when the water is gone, it's gone.

But why is it so complicated? It's more or less the same as a manual system, but with an electric pump instead of a foot pump. A hose from a tank, to a pump, to a manifold, to the taps. Super simple.