Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 24-05-2022, 07:09   #16
Nearly an old salt
 
goboatingnow's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Lefkas Marina ,Greece
Boat: Bavaria 36
Posts: 20,081
Images: 3
Re: Adapter for US propane to EU tanks or fills

Quote:
Originally Posted by skipmac View Post
Although I don't plan to cover a lot of different areas, at least initially, this sounds like the easiest, most flexible option. Seems like all I will need is a hose attached to my US system, cut the end and use a double ended hose barb to connect to whichever European system I can find.



Since the bottles in Europe seem to have the regulator attached then I'llplan to bypass my US regulator and connect directly to my shutoff solenoid.



Or just surrender, admit technology won and use a generator and electric hot plate.


Yes I would use bottle based regulators and just plumb in to the low pressure gas line via a flexible pipe. This will easily allow you to move bottle types with relative ease. This is especially true for areas where bottle based regulator bottles are common
__________________
Interested in smart boat technology, networking and all things tech
goboatingnow is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 24-05-2022, 07:13   #17
Senior Cruiser
 
skipmac's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: 29į 49.16í N 82į 25.82í W
Boat: Pearson 422
Posts: 16,257
Re: Adapter for US propane to EU tanks or fills

Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
Yes I would use bottle based regulators and just plumb in to the low pressure gas line via a flexible pipe. This will easily allow you to move bottle types with relative ease. This is especially true for areas where bottle based regulator bottles are common
After considering all the options, at least as well as my total confusion in the multitude of connectors, tanks, and fittings, this seems like the plan. Now to make sure I bring a hose (or two) with the proper connection to my low pressure side.
__________________
The water is always bluer on the other side of the ocean.
Sometimes it's necessary to state the obvious for the benefit of the oblivious.
Rust is the poor man's Loctite.
skipmac is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 24-05-2022, 10:41   #18
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Langley, WA
Boat: Nordic 44
Posts: 2,124
Re: Adapter for US propane to EU tanks or fills

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jammer View Post
Be aware that the QCC1 fittings are safer. They are designed to melt and shut off in a fire, and have excess flow checks. And they are easier to connect and disconnect. You give that up with the POLs.
I have to disagree with this statement. QCC fittings are not safer - they do not seal as well as POL fittings. That tiny leak is OK for a BBQ out in the open but in a boat's gas locker it is not.

With a QCC fitting the tank valve must be closed when not in use. Most boat owners do not do this - they use the electric gas valve to turn the gas on and off. The only acceptable connection is with a wrench tightened POL fitting. The QCC is more of a marketing ploy than an improvement. It exists to make it easier for people with no mechanical skills to change tanks.

I know this from personal experience from when the OPD valves were first introduced. I will never use a QCC again.
stormalong is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-05-2022, 15:26   #19
Registered User
 
CarinaPDX's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Portland, Oregon, USA
Boat: 31' Cape George Cutter
Posts: 3,142
Re: Adapter for US propane to EU tanks or fills

When setting out to go cruising I think the best approach is to buy a long propane cable, cut it in half, then one half will attach to the regulator and accept the local tank fitting and the other half can use that local tank fitting to make a transfer hose between local and U.S. tanks (not really recommended but sometimes desperation makes cruisers do things they shouldn't). With a pigtail from the regulator it is simple to buy local tank fittings, and you may end up acquiring quite a few.

The warning I would make is that your stove be CE certified. If it is an older U.S. stove (and maybe even current) it may have been designed for propane only, and for delivery at our pressure standard. EU delivery pressure for propane is a bit different, and of course butane pressures are a lot different. CE approval requires that stoves operate properly at all three pressures, with propane, butane, or mixtures. Some of the U.S. stoves based on RV designs can actually melt the burners with pure butane or even mixtures. This is not just a rumor - I have seen the results with my own eyes. I also had a long talk with a Calor Gas manager at the Southampton boat show years ago. It seems when they first starting importing Force 10 stoves there were problems from overheating (before the CE approvals), which were fixed but did make the point. Not all burners and regulators can work with all gases, so pay attention.

Greg
CarinaPDX is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 24-05-2022, 18:11   #20
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 1,631
Re: Adapter for US propane to EU tanks or fills

Quote:
Originally Posted by CarinaPDX View Post
When setting out to go cruising I think the best approach is to buy a long propane cable, cut it in half, then one half will attach to the regulator and accept the local tank fitting and the other half can use that local tank fitting to make a transfer hose between local and U.S. tanks (not really recommended but sometimes desperation makes cruisers do things they shouldn't). With a pigtail from the regulator it is simple to buy local tank fittings, and you may end up acquiring quite a few.

The warning I would make is that your stove be CE certified. If it is an older U.S. stove (and maybe even current) it may have been designed for propane only, and for delivery at our pressure standard. EU delivery pressure for propane is a bit different, and of course butane pressures are a lot different. CE approval requires that stoves operate properly at all three pressures, with propane, butane, or mixtures. Some of the U.S. stoves based on RV designs can actually melt the burners with pure butane or even mixtures. This is not just a rumor - I have seen the results with my own eyes. I also had a long talk with a Calor Gas manager at the Southampton boat show years ago. It seems when they first starting importing Force 10 stoves there were problems from overheating (before the CE approvals), which were fixed but did make the point. Not all burners and regulators can work with all gases, so pay attention.

Greg
I thought propane burned hotter than butane? I would have thought the whole melting thing would happen the other way around, using propane in a butane system?
redneckrob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-05-2022, 20:37   #21
Registered User
 
CarinaPDX's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Portland, Oregon, USA
Boat: 31' Cape George Cutter
Posts: 3,142
Re: Adapter for US propane to EU tanks or fills

Quote:
Originally Posted by redneckrob View Post
I thought propane burned hotter than butane? I would have thought the whole melting thing would happen the other way around, using propane in a butane system?
I think the problem is that propane burners and regulators deliver too much butane gas. The burner I saw literally melted enough for the edge to drop down 90 degrees.

Greg
CarinaPDX is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 24-05-2022, 22:15   #22
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2008
Boat: Trident marine Voyager 30
Posts: 615
Re: Adapter for US propane to EU tanks or fills

Quote:
Originally Posted by redneckrob View Post
I thought propane burned hotter than butane? I would have thought the whole melting thing would happen the other way around, using propane in a butane system?
Butane definitely burns hotter. A standard bulkhead regulator in the EU is set to deliver 30 mbar so that it can be used with both propane and butane while the old bottle top propane regulators are set at 37 mbar.
Anders is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-05-2022, 22:27   #23
Nearly an old salt
 
goboatingnow's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Lefkas Marina ,Greece
Boat: Bavaria 36
Posts: 20,081
Images: 3
Re: Adapter for US propane to EU tanks or fills

Quote:
Originally Posted by CarinaPDX View Post
When setting out to go cruising I think the best approach is to buy a long propane cable, cut it in half, then one half will attach to the regulator and accept the local tank fitting and the other half can use that local tank fitting to make a transfer hose between local and U.S. tanks (not really recommended but sometimes desperation makes cruisers do things they shouldn't). With a pigtail from the regulator it is simple to buy local tank fittings, and you may end up acquiring quite a few.

The warning I would make is that your stove be CE certified. If it is an older U.S. stove (and maybe even current) it may have been designed for propane only, and for delivery at our pressure standard. EU delivery pressure for propane is a bit different, and of course butane pressures are a lot different. CE approval requires that stoves operate properly at all three pressures, with propane, butane, or mixtures. Some of the U.S. stoves based on RV designs can actually melt the burners with pure butane or even mixtures. This is not just a rumor - I have seen the results with my own eyes. I also had a long talk with a Calor Gas manager at the Southampton boat show years ago. It seems when they first starting importing Force 10 stoves there were problems from overheating (before the CE approvals), which were fixed but did make the point. Not all burners and regulators can work with all gases, so pay attention.

Greg
Certainly in Europe and for sure in places like Ireland, forget about using your own tanks. Forget about high pressure bottle to on board regulators. Simply terminate your gas low pressure side infeed in your gas locker in a length of conventional orange flexible low pressure gas bottle hose. Then use local bottles and their associated regulators , these will be widely available in the particular country and the bottles will be distributed locally , the local regulator will be cheap

If you plan to visit many countries then about the only standard is the 3-3.8 kg camping gaz bottle. Greece uses a local version ands it’s cheap around €10.

Other countries camping gaz can be expensive

Trying to fill weird non local bottles is an excercise in frustration as is decanting as many bottle systems use on bottle regulators. Humping your boats cylinders around from place to place gets old fast.
__________________
Interested in smart boat technology, networking and all things tech
goboatingnow is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 24-05-2022, 22:37   #24
Nearly an old salt
 
goboatingnow's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Lefkas Marina ,Greece
Boat: Bavaria 36
Posts: 20,081
Images: 3
Re: Adapter for US propane to EU tanks or fills

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anders View Post
Butane definitely burns hotter. A standard bulkhead regulator in the EU is set to deliver 30 mbar so that it can be used with both propane and butane while the old bottle top propane regulators are set at 37 mbar.
Propane burns slightly hotter then butane ( around 10 degrees ) , but butanes calorific value is considerably better then propane which is why itís used in cooking ( 126MJ/m3 versus 95.8MJ/m3.) , hence for a given amount of gas , butane is much more effective then propane.

The problem is worse with the new standard combined 30 mg European regulator , before propane was regulated higher to compensate for the lower caloric value and or the jets were slightly bigger.

Hence feeding butane into cheap propane appliances can damage them , I went through a burner on my American bbq that way. , I then had a stronger one built locally

Unless you have low temperatures butane is a better system for cooking then propane and itís why itís near universal in Europe.
__________________
Interested in smart boat technology, networking and all things tech
goboatingnow is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 24-05-2022, 22:38   #25
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2008
Boat: Trident marine Voyager 30
Posts: 615
Re: Adapter for US propane to EU tanks or fills

Not sure of the current situation but UK Calor propane bottles has been in short supply and retailers told to exchange bottles but not sell any new bottles.
Anders is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-05-2022, 22:42   #26
Nearly an old salt
 
goboatingnow's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Lefkas Marina ,Greece
Boat: Bavaria 36
Posts: 20,081
Images: 3
Re: Adapter for US propane to EU tanks or fills

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anders View Post
Not sure of the current situation but UK Calor propane bottles has been in short supply and retailers told to exchange bottles but not sell any new bottles.
This is still the current situation
__________________
Interested in smart boat technology, networking and all things tech
goboatingnow is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 25-05-2022, 05:28   #27
Senior Cruiser
 
skipmac's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: 29į 49.16í N 82į 25.82í W
Boat: Pearson 422
Posts: 16,257
Re: Adapter for US propane to EU tanks or fills

Went to the boat yesterday to check my installation and consider options. See the photo. Due to the size and shape of the propane locker the regulator is installed on the wall and caulked into place to keep any leaks from spilling into the boat.

This will make it a bit of a pain to remove the existing regulator and connect a European tank with hose and integrated regulator to my system. Much easier to disconnect the hose leading to the solenoid in front of the regulator and connect a European tank to the solenoid. BUT

Seems like many/most/all European tanks have hoses with integrated regulators so

1. Are there hoses and connections without regulators that I can connect to my system?

2. If not then would my system work if I connected the low pressure from the European regulator to the input of my US regulator or would I have to remove my regulator from the system?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	20220524_172928.jpg
Views:	12
Size:	403.7 KB
ID:	258355  
__________________
The water is always bluer on the other side of the ocean.
Sometimes it's necessary to state the obvious for the benefit of the oblivious.
Rust is the poor man's Loctite.
skipmac is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 25-05-2022, 06:33   #28
Nearly an old salt
 
goboatingnow's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Lefkas Marina ,Greece
Boat: Bavaria 36
Posts: 20,081
Images: 3
Re: Adapter for US propane to EU tanks or fills

Low pressure to low pressure doesnít tend to work as the regulator wonít function properly.

ď some European cylinders will have high pressure taps ie external regulators. These are normally only propane types. So in places like Ireland youíll not be able to use the normal domestic distribution system to get suitable bottles. As an aside the 3.8 kg small propane bottle is very hard to source.

The other option is the 3.5kg camping gaz bottle as you can get a high pressure tap for this ( youíll to go to a specialist for this ) this bottle is available as a price through camping shops etc

In the U.K. the blue calor 4 kg cylinder is high pressure again you will a converter , itís a 21mm left hand thread system itís not POL as itís butane

In Ireland and the U.K. the propane ( red ) bottles are the same and you will need a U.K. mating POL , the main issue is these cylinders are not distributed using normal domestic methods so youíll be travelling to builders yards , hire equipment depots or plumbing supplies
__________________
Interested in smart boat technology, networking and all things tech
goboatingnow is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 25-05-2022, 06:40   #29
Nearly an old salt
 
goboatingnow's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Lefkas Marina ,Greece
Boat: Bavaria 36
Posts: 20,081
Images: 3
Adapter for US propane to EU tanks or fills

To summarise

For high pressure bottles
Small propane U.K. POL fitting , distributed via commercial distributors small propane bottles ( ie <11kg) can be hard to get

Small butane , camping gaz 3.5kg expensive available through chandlers and camping stores etc , specialist tap needed ( as most places just sell the screw on regulator ) but bottle is available in many countries ( at widely differing prices )

( alternative is calor 4.5 kg butane bottle is different size in U.K. versus Ireland but fitting is the same 21mm left have thread , specialist take off fitting needed as normally the regulator is screwed on to the bottle )

All the rest will be available but are set up for on bottle regulators
__________________
Interested in smart boat technology, networking and all things tech
goboatingnow is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 25-05-2022, 10:35   #30
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2008
Boat: Trident marine Voyager 30
Posts: 615
Re: Adapter for US propane to EU tanks or fills

Quote:
Originally Posted by skipmac View Post
Went to the boat yesterday to check my installation and consider options. See the photo. Due to the size and shape of the propane locker the regulator is installed on the wall and caulked into place to keep any leaks from spilling into the boat.

This will make it a bit of a pain to remove the existing regulator and connect a European tank with hose and integrated regulator to my system. Much easier to disconnect the hose leading to the solenoid in front of the regulator and connect a European tank to the solenoid. BUT

Seems like many/most/all European tanks have hoses with integrated regulators so

1. Are there hoses and connections without regulators that I can connect to my system?

2. If not then would my system work if I connected the low pressure from the European regulator to the input of my US regulator or would I have to remove my regulator from the system?
Why do you want to bypass your bulkhead regulator? Just get a pigtail that connects the bottle to your bulkhead regulator and problem solved.
Anders is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
propane, tanks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Galley Sink Fills With Water zboss Plumbing Systems and Fixtures 131 14-08-2015 20:30
Miracle Water Tank Fills Itself! jr_spyder Plumbing Systems and Fixtures 14 24-08-2014 20:15
Heads problem - fills up to brim svrevelations Construction, Maintenance & Refit 8 16-05-2012 08:01
Nylon Deck Fills Building a boat Plumbing Systems and Fixtures 5 01-12-2011 23:40
Tanks, tanks & more tanks knottybuoyz Construction, Maintenance & Refit 12 26-06-2008 10:47

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 20:17.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.