Do I need a license to sail?

[DavidMRea]

Unless you have acceptable US qualifications, you'll need an ICC to sail in most of Europe (Croatia, France, Italy.... )

https://www.rya.org.uk/knowledge-adv...s-the-icc.aspx

[Greg K]

Originally Posted by DavidMRea

Unless you have acceptable US qualifications, you'll need an ICC to sail in most of Europe (Croatia, France, Italy.... )

https://www.rya.org.uk/knowledge-adv...s-the-icc.aspx

With all due respect to all the sail training outfits, international sailing certification seems to be a bit of a money scam. The RYA has its ICC, and the ASA has its IPC... and both claim to be needed for international sailing when in fact about the only folks who recognize these so-called international certificates are the charter companies.

To the best of my knowledge, flag of the vessel determines the operator qualification and the vessel safety requirements. This has been the long standing international maritime law and, as far as I know, it has not changed. Some time ago, NZ challenged these international rules by requiring foreign flagged vessels to meet NZ safety standards for going off shore, but they had no choice but to abandon such requirements as they went against international maritime law.

A foreign nation has the right to demand proof that you and your vessel meet the operator and safety requirements of the jurisdiction under which you are flagged, but that's about it.

[DavidMRea]

Originally Posted by Greg K

With all due respect to all the sail training outfits, international sailing certification seems to be a bit of a money scam. The RYA has its ICC, and the ASA has its IPC... and both claim to be needed for international sailing when in fact about the only folks who recognize these so-called international certificates are the charter companies.

To the best of my knowledge, flag of the vessel determines the operator qualification and the vessel safety requirements. This has been the long standing international maritime law and, as far as I know, it has not changed. Some time ago, NZ challenged these international rules by requiring foreign flagged vessels to meet NZ safety standards for going off shore, but they had no choice but to abandon such requirements as they went against international maritime law.

A foreign nation has the right to demand proof that you and your vessel meet the operator and safety requirements of the jurisdiction under which you are flagged, but that's about it.

I'm happy to be corrected. I've had to show my ICC and my logbook before to the Greek harbour police but, yes, I was chartering. It's possible they were more impressed by my log than by the ICC...

[conachair]

Originally Posted by Greg K

... The RYA has its ICC, .

The rya just happens to be one of the organisations in the uk authorised to issue ICC certificates by the MCA, it didn't come up with the idea. The ICC is a UN invention.

[Jdege]

Originally Posted by OneKoolCat

That said I often find myself wishing there were something in place for mandate more education for seamanship. This will usually when I am in a crowded inland area.

There was an interesting bit in one of Sailing Uma's recent videos.

Dan and Kika have been living aboard for five years, circled the Caribbean twice, sailed the east coast of the US, explored Canada, made an Atlantic crossing, and it wasn't until they reached the Solent that they realized they really needed to learn how to sail.

In all that time and distance it was their first experience with a crowded sailing area, and they realized they really didn't know the COLREGS as well as they should.

[George DuBose]

I am an American living in Germany. I keep my USCG documented sailboat in The Netherlands. I had to import the boat, paying VAT and putting the boat through a PCA survey.

As the ship is US registered, I am a US citizen, I don't need a license to sail in Scandinavia, Germany, Holland, UK, Atlantic coast of France, but to take my boat in to Croatian waters, I had to have a license of a certain level. The Europeans have a universal license called the International Certificate of Competency, ICC. That works everywhere.

You can take courses with the RYA if you are a member for the ICC.

I took an online course with NauticEd and a 6 hour practical exam in Tampa, FL. The overall cost was close to $1000. The SLC license from NauticEd is accepted by the Croats and charter companies worldwide.

Unfortunately, Croatia is now the most popular sailing destination in the world and the Croats have "smelled the coffee".

[Greg K]

Originally Posted by DavidMRea

I'm happy to be corrected. I've had to show my ICC and my logbook before to the Greek harbour police but, yes, I was chartering. It's possible they were more impressed by my log than by the ICC...

Must be something about the Greek authorities (and by the sounds of it, Croatian, too). In over a decade of cruising in the Med, the only time I was ever asked to produce sailing qualifications was by the harbor master in Simi.

To make a long story short, after some discussion I finally gave in and promised to return next day to show him my ASA courses logbook, but by then he didn't care enough to examine it. Being an official, he was more interested in winning the argument that I had to show him something.

It would take a very long essay to detail all of the ego trips I've personally witnessed port authorities engage in on both sides of the pond from Turkey to Venezuela and a lot of places in between.

[AlanT]

Just a tip. Whether you actually need a license from your home or flag state I cannot say. However from practical experience I can tell you that some ports will not allow you to moor with out 1/proof of vessel registration/ownership & 2/ A license. I experienced this only once in 4 years of sailing largely in the Med. It was in Italy. I was able to show an RYA COastal Skipper qualification which satisfied the port authority.

So it is as well to be prepared. And an RYA course or similar is good experience anyway.

~Alan

[hpeer]

Originally Posted by George DuBose

I am an American living in Germany. I keep my USCG documented sailboat in The Netherlands. I had to import the boat, paying VAT and putting the boat through a PCA survey.

As the ship is US registered, I am a US citizen, I don't need a license to sail in Scandinavia, Germany, Holland, UK, Atlantic coast of France, but to take my boat in to Croatian waters, I had to have a license of a certain level. The Europeans have a universal license called the International Certificate of Competency, ICC. That works everywhere.

You can take courses with the RYA if you are a member for the ICC.

I took an online course with NauticEd and a 6 hour practical exam in Tampa, FL. The overall cost was close to $1000. The SLC license from NauticEd is accepted by the Croats and charter companies worldwide.

Unfortunately, Croatia is now the most popular sailing destination in the world and the Croats have "smelled the coffee".

GEORGE,

Do you have any level of USCG license? Six pack or above? Would that matter?

I ask because my understanding was the flag country rules rule.

[AlanT]

Originally Posted by Greg K

Must be something about the Greek authorities (and by the sounds of it, Croatian, too). In over a decade of cruising in the Med, the only time I was ever asked to produce sailing qualifications was by the harbor master in Simi.

To make a long story short, after some discussion I finally gave in and promised to return next day to show him my ASA courses logbook, but by then he didn't care enough to examine it. Being an official, he was more interested in winning the argument that I had to show him something.

It would take a very long essay to detail all of the ego trips I've personally witnessed port authorities engage in on both sides of the pond from Turkey to Venezuela and a lot of places in between.

And conversely, we were never asked for licenses in Simi (2008, 2009). I think as you say it is largely a matter of officialdom and official boredom whether you are asked or not. As noted in another post, we only once had to show qualifications and that was in Italy, in Bari I think. (nowhere else in Italy had that requirement).
~Alan