Lobster/Crab/Shrimp traps - aaaaargh!

[deblen]

Originally Posted by himnher

On a yacht, undersail, and all night? ��

COLREGS Rule 5. Keep a lookout by sight(eyeball) & sound at all times....


https://www.boatingmag.com/gear/top-...s-for-boaters/


https://www.ridetheducksofseattle.co...at-spotlights/

[flightlead404]

Originally Posted by Sailingallday

Well, after many many miles, it has finally happened to me - caught a lobster trap in my prop. Sailing a catamaran at night between Portland and Adelaide, Australia. Approx 10 miles off shore. Didn’t see the damn thing at all. Boat slowed right down and I couldn’t figure out why. First thought there was a big current against me but then saw two floats behind the boat. Could hardly lift the line to cut it free. Everything disappeared but I could still see line wrapped in the prop (which had not been in use). Too dark to deal with in the night so at daylight I jumped in and cut it all free. Water temp 11.8c. Damn cold!

Some commercial fisherman is now missing his trap. Sucks to be him, but he should mark it for all conditions (including night). It’s the same issue all over the world. Lobsters on the east coast of NA. Crabs on the west. Lobsters in the South Pacific. And the unattended, limited warning hazards of commercial fishermen.

Who else has caught one? It’s easy to say don’t sail at night, but sometimes it’s the only viable option.

Caught 2, neither on the prop. Snagged a double floated one on the keep when one float went one way and one the other. In 30' in the Hawks Channel. Just dropped the hook, grabbed a knife, and went in.

Second time I was gybing downwind in 20kts under spinnaker alone, towing the dink. Dumb. Was already thinking rolling up the spinnaker, and should have had the dink on the davits in the winds and sea state. Live and learn. Caught the float on the dinghy tow bridle and it stopped us cold in the middle of a gybe and things got real busy real quick.

[deblen]

Originally Posted by flightlead404

Caught 2, neither on the prop. Snagged a double floated one on the keep when one float went one way and one the other. In 30' in the Hawks Channel. Just dropped the hook, grabbed a knife, and went in.

Second time I was gybing downwind in 20kts under spinnaker alone, towing the dink. Dumb. Was already thinking rolling up the spinnaker, and should have had the dink on the davits in the winds and sea state. Live and learn. Caught the float on the dinghy tow bridle and it stopped us cold in the middle of a gybe and things got real busy real quick.

Your keel looks like it should shed rope eventually

[CaptTom]

Originally Posted by limte

...My understanding of the toggles is that they are used in areas of increased tidal range, the toggle serving to control the excess line.

I've heard that excuse reason, too. I call BS.

Where we fished, there was a 10' tide range, rocky bottom and very strong currents. We never used nor needed toggles.

In theory, the toggle could be some help if it were set part-way along the line so that it kept the lower 10 feet (or whatever the tide range is) always off the bottom. Imagine 30' of water, 10' tide range. You'd need 40' of line, and the toggle would need to go like 10' to 15' up from the trap.

That's not how they rig them. They'll rig (in my example) 50 or 75 feet of line from the trap to the toggle, then another 8, 12, 18 or 20 feet to the pick-up buoy. There is always a bunch of line dragging on the bottom, the toggle is always at the surface, and there's a "trip line" stretched over to the pick-up buoy by the current, which functions only to snag the running gear of unsuspecting boats.

There's just no good reason. Believe me, I've asked. It's tradition. That's the way our grandfathers did it. That's the way everyone (in some areas) does it. So we better do the same, even if we don't know why.

[himnher]

Originally Posted by deblen

COLREGS Rule 5. Keep a lookout by sight(eyeball) & sound at all times....

If life were that easy this thread wouldn't even exist. No one would strike semi-submerged objects and pots would never be an issue. Remember, moonless night, tide running and overspills, and no marker ever found or seen by us or lifeboat.

We were in 100' of water as I recall, and whatever it was, was heavy, as it held a 35' yacht swinging in a strong tide not moving an inch. No dragging a line of pots. We were held fast. The line was also strong and plentiful enough to cause problems to a 1,300hp lifeboat.

Guess we forgot to mount the MTB searchlight and man on the bow 😳

[rwaldrop13]

Originally Posted by Sailingallday

Well, after many many miles, it has finally happened to me - caught a lobster trap in my prop. Sailing a catamaran at night between Portland and Adelaide, Australia. Approx 10 miles off shore. Didn’t see the damn thing at all. Boat slowed right down and I couldn’t figure out why. First thought there was a big current against me but then saw two floats behind the boat. Could hardly lift the line to cut it free. Everything disappeared but I could still see line wrapped in the prop (which had not been in use). Too dark to deal with in the night so at daylight I jumped in and cut it all free. Water temp 11.8c. Damn cold!

Some commercial fisherman is now missing his trap. Sucks to be him, but he should mark it for all conditions (including night). It’s the same issue all over the world. Lobsters on the east coast of NA. Crabs on the west. Lobsters in the South Pacific. And the unattended, limited warning hazards of commercial fishermen.

Who else has caught one? It’s easy to say don’t sail at night, but sometimes it’s the only viable option.

I'm sure I'm not the first one to chime in on this, and our boat was a 54' Hatteras motor yacht. But the first owner installed line cutters in 1986 that honestly looked like they could sever mooring buoy chains. I never had to contend with pots, as Hurricane Ian destroyed our boat/home, but our surveyor at time of purchase took separate photos from all angles of our linecutters, as "you can't get that style anymore but they were the best" to have a local shop fabricate similar ones for his boat.

[Americat3014]

Originally Posted by Shrew

I have never seen a pot/trap float with a floating line. I admit I haven't been everywhere, however I've just never seen one.

What does happen is the shot of line might be many feet longer than high tide. If you run over the float, you're likely to suck the slack up into the prop. Not always. Many times, I've seen one at the last second and the bow wave pushes it far enough to the side. Admittedly, I try to haul back on the throttle and throw the gearset into neutral when that happens.

On the west coast of Florida we use floating line but run it through a 3'ish ounce weight tied about 5 feet below the float. Makes it about impossible to catch the line. In the Florida Keys I didn't see anyone using weights and some traps had 50 feet of line floating on the water. That seemed insane.

[BluePeter]

Originally Posted by Phyrcooler

There is so much that fishermen COULD do to help alleviate this problem. Most of the ones around here you can barely see during the day due to asinine float color choice and filth. Low draw/long lasting LED lights are so commonly available, that a nighttime solution could be contrived by a middle schooler IF the fisherman cared or desired. So, no, I don’t buy into the “poor fisherman” excuse anymore. There’s NO excuse for these things to be hiding in high trafffic areas like they do when they could easily be made visible.

Float color is generally assigned by the state. Lights on trap sets? HAAAAA.
Try that with the MCFA.

[Phyrcooler]

Originally Posted by BluePeter

Float color is generally assigned by the state. Lights on trap sets? HAAAAA.
Try that with the MCFA.

And your point? The issue can’t be fixed because the state supposedly told them to use smallest possible dark blue, black and other hard to see floats? Floats so dirty and marred that even a red float can hardly be picked out. Because that’s what I see up and down the west coast.

Bottom line - issue could be much improved and safer for all boaters on both coasts if the fishermen or the industry cared.

[CaptTom]

The "law of the sea," both official and un-official, has developed over the centuries to support fishing and shipping interests. Recreational boating, at the scale we see today, is a relatively recent thing. In other words, a lot of the "why" questions can be answered with "because they were here first."

It's hard to take a holier-than-thou stand here. A good portion of the Nav rules don't apply to recreational boaters, and, frankly, some parts are ignored by them. Most of us would agree that a person's livelihood is more important than the convenience of those engaged in recreational activities. In the overall scheme of things, no, you don't have to travel at night without sufficient lookouts to avoid hitting fishing gear, or for that matter, any other hazards which might be in the water.

Are the fishermen always right? Absolutely not. It angers me, too, when I see poorly rigged or maintained gear. But I still respect the industry and try to take a live-and-let-live approach to dealing with the inconveniences it causes me.

[deblen]

Calif. commercial fishery regs. https://nrm.dfg.ca.gov/FileHandler.a...=191712&inline


https://media.fisheries.noaa.gov/dam...nal_121411.pdf



I don't know if it is illegal in all states to interfere with commercial fishing gear. It certainly is illegal in Maine.
As I said in post 10-check local laws re-commercial gear. You may be surprised.
Cheers/Len

[deblen]

NOAA Guide-Technical info on W.Coast USA commercial fishing gear.
https://media.fisheries.noaa.gov/dam...nal_121411.pdf


Cheers/Len

[deblen]

How a lobster pot trawl works in East US & Canada FYI.
Canadians are limited to 300-562 pots total,depending on district,& they try to haul all of them each trip out. It makes for a busy & long,non-stop day.Maine fishermen can have 800 or more,I am told. /Len

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiwBg6FKHwM

[deblen]

Running a trap trawl back overboard.
Note the anchor going over near end of video.
After the anchor goes over,the sinking rope buoy line with large float goes. A trailing small float,with 30 ft of floating rope is last to go.
The trailing float & it's 30 ft of floating rope are to catch a thrown grapnel,when retrieving the trawl.
The buoy line,from large buoy down to anchor,is usually 2 x depth long (up to 1200 ft in 600 ft water) This keeps the big buoy & trailer above water longer in running tidal current.
After 45 deg. or so,the current will take the buoys under & they can't be hauled ,so the extra length allows you to haul more gear in a day. This anchor,long sinking buoy line,large buoy & trailer is rigged on both ends of trawl.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uujAh-YYRic

If you snag one of these trawls,you will be anchored. Cutting is the only choice in most cases.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7MqbpARRqY

[deblen]

Sailing thru pots is usually safe-if you don't have pot rope catcher designed underwater gear.