Lobster/Crab/Shrimp traps - aaaaargh!

[rls8r]

boatpoker -

Sorry - I'm afraid that my message wasn't clear in the paragraph that you quote. Sure, there are inconsiderate watermen who may place their pots in places where they shouldn't - and those watermen surely deserve our ire. However - sometimes we encounter pots in places where they shouldn't be (say, in channels) that is the result not of watermen placing the pots in the channel - but rather, from causes beyond their control, like the pots being moved from where the waterman placed them by currents, storms, non-commercial boaters, etc.

So - I didn't mean that rules shouldn't apply to watermen, but rather, that we should not automatically assume that a stray pot was placed there by an inconsiderate waterman. Instead, take a look around and see if the pot is a member of a row of pots. If so, call the State Department of Natural Resources or the local fisheries commission and report them.

On another note - yes, I usually do get out of the way of trucks on the highway (that's a general rule for me) - but I also do it even when they are not strictly following the rules. I've been known to wait behind a double-parked delivery truck until oncoming traffic cleared; I've been known to stop short (or back up) to allow a truck to make a wide turn into my lane; I move out of the lane if they come up on me from behind while exceeding the posted speed limit. Just because I make a few exceptions to rules that allow truckers to more easily make a living doesn't mean that I'm arguing that all rules never should apply. Sorry if I gave that impression.

[Sailingallday]

My take on it

They are creating a hazard to others and doing next to nothing to alert other users of the waters of the hazards.

Seems to be a lot of “that’s how we do it because that’s how we have always done it”

[deblen]

Originally Posted by Sailingallday

My take on it

They are creating a hazard to others and doing next to nothing to alert other users of the waters of the hazards.

Seems to be a lot of “that’s how we do it because that’s how we have always done it”

Yep-I know it can be frustrating,but I think you will find Commercial fishermen have the law on their side. Perhaps some blame,if there is any blame?, lies with legislators
Check out the local commercial fishing laws-you may be surprised.


When sharing,each user of a public resource has an obligation to prepare & operate their equipment safely & responsibly.If this means equipping your recreational boat with equipment that will help avoid damage to other people's marine gear(set legally),then,so be it.
Of course there will always be that 10% of a-h..es on both sides that refuse to even try to cooperate.

Cheers/Len
https://bnbfishing.com.au/crab-pot-s...5000-in-fines/
https://www.business.qld.gov.au/indu...es/regulations


There are worse situations in other areas of the world. Don't ever mess with Maine pots! https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ts-223111.html

[CaptTom]

I've been on both sides of this, as a lobsterman and a recreational cruiser. In Maine. So, yes, I have opinions.

Originally Posted by Sailingallday

...Seems to be a lot of “that’s how we do it because that’s how we have always done it”

This is very true. Take, for example, the asinine practice of fishing gear with "toggles." Those are the trip lines strung between one small, inconspicuous float and the main pick-up buoy. I've asked. No lobsterman has ever been able to come up with a legitimate reason for them. Mostly it's just "that's the way all the other guys do it around here." FOMO is a powerful motivator.

As for fishing in channels, well, you have to fish where the lobsters are. There is some risk of loss of gear. But again, missing out on the best fishing can be costly. Buoys in mooring fields are inexcusable. Lay down a trawl with the pick-up buoy outside the field if you must. I know one guy who doesn't use a pickup buoy in the mooring field outside our marina. He uses a grapnel to retrieve his gear. But, yeah, there are a-holes in every industry. We have our share.

One final observation, having spent a lifetime in Maine waters. If you're not keeping an adequate lookout, as required by law, then it's not just lobster buoys you risk hitting. Those are inconvenient and can be expensive to remove. But there are far worse things out there which are just as inconspicuous. Dead heads. broken dock floats. Mats of seaweed with lines and logs entwined in them. I've even seen refrigerators floating just at/below the surface. Lobster buoys are just reminders to help keep you alert.

[Shrew]

Originally Posted by Sailingallday

Hell, just use sinking line so there is nothing floating on the surface except the float. Very tough for anyone to tangle in it then. There is absolutely no need for the 50 m of line to be floating across the surface

I have never seen a pot/trap float with a floating line. I admit I haven't been everywhere, however I've just never seen one.

What does happen is the shot of line might be many feet longer than high tide. If you run over the float, you're likely to suck the slack up into the prop. Not always. Many times, I've seen one at the last second and the bow wave pushes it far enough to the side. Admittedly, I try to haul back on the throttle and throw the gearset into neutral when that happens.

[Cpt Mark]

Between Astoria Oregon and the Straits of Juan de Fuca there is a corridor, agreed to by the crabbers to be a crab trap free zone. The commercial tug running the coast had issues and the crabbers lost traps. This worked well until the crabs decided, hey, if we live over here, we're safe. They did and the crabbers started laying traps because that's where the best areas now were.

Make them put an ais transceiver on them> Or at least adequate radar reflector? Nope. Because then the other fisherman know where their best spots are.

Same reason it appears for lots of fishing boats to turn their AIS off so the competition doesn't know where they are. Or anyone else.

Living and diving in the Caribbean we use to see fish traps all over the bottom. We destroyed them as we found them. They'd broken free and now were killing machines. Fish would get trapped, die, become bait for other fish, process continues. Locals said we were ruining their fishing. Nope. We were actually improving their fishing but they couldn't understand it.

I've caught traps. It's just part of boating off the coast. Caught them when they were months out of season. Had been blown away to a new location during a storm. Can't put rope cutters on my shafts, not enough room.

As for "not keeping a proper watch". Who are you kidding? They are difficult to see in inclement conditions and keeping proper watch I ran right in between 2 buoys and didn't see them until they were passing by either hull. Scientific buoys btw.

Have dive equipment and a serrated knife.

[Kettlewell]

Get revenge and eat the lobsters and crabs! Dropped our anchor right on top of a lobster trap in Newport, RI, once, and when I pulled up the fouled mess my wife was shouting,"Get the lobsters!" I've snagged multiple traps in a single day in Maine and in the Cheapeake. There are places where you just can't pass between all the floats without zig zagging along, and that is not so easily done when under sail. When approaching the travelift to get hauled in Maine I grabbed the binoculars to see whether or not the crew was ready for me and of course wound up a lobster trap at that moment. It just takes a moment of inattention to catch one.

[deblen]

Originally Posted by CaptTom

I've been on both sides of this, as a lobsterman and a recreational cruiser. In Maine. So, yes, I have opinions.



This is very true. Take, for example, the asinine practice of fishing gear with "toggles." Those are the trip lines strung between one small, inconspicuous float and the main pick-up buoy. I've asked. No lobsterman has ever been able to come up with a legitimate reason for them. Mostly it's just "that's the way all the other guys do it around here." FOMO is a powerful motivator.

As for fishing in channels, well, you have to fish where the lobsters are. There is some risk of loss of gear. But again, missing out on the best fishing can be costly. Buoys in mooring fields are inexcusable. Lay down a trawl with the pick-up buoy outside the field if you must. I know one guy who doesn't use a pickup buoy in the mooring field outside our marina. He uses a grapnel to retrieve his gear. But, yeah, there are a-holes in every industry. We have our share.

One final observation, having spent a lifetime in Maine waters. If you're not keeping an adequate lookout, as required by law, then it's not just lobster buoys you risk hitting. Those are inconvenient and can be expensive to remove. But there are far worse things out there which are just as inconspicuous. Dead heads. broken dock floats. Mats of seaweed with lines and logs entwined in them. I've even seen refrigerators floating just at/below the surface. Lobster buoys are just reminders to help keep you alert.

Yep. If you are going to cruise anywhere,it is your responsibility to protect your vessel as best you can from local hazards,including "The 10%",whether they drive ships,tugs,speedboats,fishing boats,etc.



I post this info about Northeast US/East Canadian lobster/crab pot fishing methods FYI. I tell it like it is,not how some of us would like it to be Your boat/choice. Hope it helps.


Back in the day (pre 60's),before floating plastic/poly rope came out,tarred manila rope was used. This sinking rope needed a cork/toggle/small float near the bottom(trap) end to float the manila & keep it from chafing on rocky bottoms. This toggle was kept below prop depth by a toggle stopper knot in main line.


Toggle floats have no purpose with todays floating (bottom) rope.
Knowlegible fishermen don't use toggle floats any more.
Also, they splice a length of sinking rope from marker buoy to floating rope to keep rope below prop level & they use several methods to ensure there is no excess floating rope near surface at low tide.


A relatively recent innovation is the use of a trailer buoy,trailing down tide/wind about 3 fathoms from the main buoy. The purpose of this is to provide a length of horizontally floating rope that can be caught by throwing a grapnel over it. This system is for offshore, rough unprotected waters, where it is near impossible to gaff a single buoy. This system has no purpose inshore & should not be used in inshore protected waters.


Often,balloons/& sometimes high flyer with radar reflector will be used,along with trailer buoy, offshore. This amount of buoyage usually indicates a trawl of 20-30 pots,on a groundline,with another similar float system a mile or so away on the other end.


Things to consider when travelling by sail only.
1.Continually monitor the direction buoys are pointing(tidal current)

2.Most deep draught,3/4 to full ,non winged keel sailboats will have no problems sliding over most pot gear & floating seaweed (with entrapped rope & culch) Look at a profile of your boat's underbody.Are there any obvious "catches" ?
3.Fin keel,wing keel,keels with "toes?".
You probably need to install "shedders".
4.Open shafts/props/P brackets/Struts.
You may need to install "shedders"
5.Fin rudders & rudders like mine.
You need a "shedder" to prevent rope from getting in the gap between hull & rudder top.

6.Saildrives(natural rope hooks) Need "shedders".




Things to consider when POWER travelling thru buoy fields.
1. Continually monitor the direction buoys are pointing(tide direction)

2. At night,use a decent spot/floodlight & your eyes. There is no radar that will pick up 8 x 14 foam lobster buoys,(or ducks) in chop or snot.There is no radar that will show which way the buoyage system is trailing,even in flat calm.
2. A single foam buoy,standing on end,or nearly so,is safe to pass close by.
3.A single foam buoy,lying horizontally,can have loose rope/swivel/etc at it's pointy end. Pass clear of the pointy end. NOTE: It could have a trailer buoy!

4.Never go between a trailer buoy & it's mother.
5.Balloons & High flyers likely have trailer buoys. Pass well clear of the pointy end or trailer if you see it.

6.Avoid thick patches of seaweed.These often have entrapped rope,net & other damaging,hidden culch. If you have to go thru a patch,shift to neutral & coast thru.
7.Never reverse,unless you are well clear of any floating "stuff",or it is a life/death emergency.Use neutral if possible.A rope,etc could drift under your boat while you were anchored/stopped.
8.Install good rope cutters.
9.Carry a "cutter on a pole"
10.Avoid going overboard in cold &/or rough conditions.
11.Wave & smile at every fisherman-he may save your life.


Hope the above helps you deal better with the stuff we live with
Cheers/Len
Retired electronics tech. & fisherman.

[himnher]

Been there, done that, in my case off Ventnor, Isle of Wight, UK. Pitch black night, engine on to punch the tide on a return from the Channel Islands and suddenly it seemed impossible to steer the vessel. The chartplotter and having our track enabled immediately gave the clue as you could see the boat swing in an arc. Only real clue of what was going on due to the inky blackness.

No option to do anything about it ... moonless and a good current running, hence the engine. To get in the water would be an invitation to be swept away into the Channel.

Put in a pan-pan and the RNLI (lifeboat) decided to come out for us and not leave us to swing for the night. It then ended up having issues, but finally managed to free us by trawling under us with a grappling hook. Did the job but also put a couple of punctures in the rudder. They then towed us back to a Chichester with an inshore RIB coming out to take us in the last few miles. It too came close to becoming entangled in the line none of knew we were still trailing. Rope cutter went on the prop following this experience.

'Love' the solution of never sailing after dark Clearly some never have the need to make a longer passage that might require sailing through several nights, let alone a simply a few hours of darkness.

[marcjsmith]

caught a trap between the skeg and rudder. it was blowing 20-25 3' seas. limped closer to shore so I could drop anchor and go overboard. was able to free the trap and line. I did cut it but retied the lines back together. granted the trap was likley a mile away from where it was picked up. gray dull over cast day on the chespeake bay near Tilghman Is. pot float was painted dull flat brown... What in the actual F#$K.

[deblen]

Originally Posted by himnher

Been there, done that, in my case off Ventnor, Isle of Wight, UK. Pitch black night, engine on to punch the tide on a return from the Channel Islands and suddenly it seemed impossible to steer the vessel. The chartplotter and having our track enabled immediately gave the clue as you could see the boat swing in an arc. Only real clue of what was going on due to the inky blackness.

No option to do anything about it ... moonless and a good current running, hence the engine. To get in the water would be an invitation to be swept away into the Channel.

Put in a pan-pan and the RNLI (lifeboat) decided to come out for us and not leave us to swing for the night. It then ended up having issues, but finally managed to free us by trawling under us with a grappling hook. Did the job but also put a couple of punctures in the rudder. They then towed us back to a Chichester with an inshore RIB coming out to take us in the last few miles. It too came close to becoming entangled in the line none of knew we were still trailing. Rope cutter went on the prop following this experience.

'Love' the solution of never sailing after dark Clearly some never have the need to make a longer passage that might require sailing through several nights, let alone a simply a few hours of darkness.

Sail at night,perhaps use a spotlight?
Cheers/Len

[deblen]

Originally Posted by marcjsmith

caught a trap between the skeg and rudder. it was blowing 20-25 3' seas. limped closer to shore so I could drop anchor and go overboard. was able to free the trap and line. I did cut it but retied the lines back together. granted the trap was likley a mile away from where it was picked up. gray dull over cast day on the chespeake bay near Tilghman Is. pot float was painted dull flat brown... What in the actual F#$K.

From the sailboat data drawing,your Moody 376 appears to have a rudder like my boat.Ropes catch in the crack between the top of the rudder balance extension & skeg,especially if rudder is turned.
I had to install a "rope shedder"
Cheers/Len




We have semi balanced skeg rudders with natural "rope/culch hooks" They really need a shedder over that gap/hook.
https://www.liveabout.com/sailboat-rudder-types-2915591

[limte]

We have been sailing in Maine for years and have caught our share of lines from lobster gear. both on the prop and on the rudder. In some harbor entrances the lobster buoys are so thick that there is not really an open channel. In situations like this we try to sail rather than motor, but this is not always possible. Many times we have had to drop our anchor among lobster buoys, looking for the buoy in the morning before departing, and occasionally catching the buoy line on our anchor chain as we raise the anchor.


We have also been in situations where lobster buoys are floating close to mooring balls, making it a bit tricky to pick up the mooring pennant. We eventually put a line cutter forward of our prop, and I think it has cut a line or two over the years. Even with the line cutter we put a lot of effort into avoiding the buoys, particularly in eastern Maine where the use of toggles makes avoiding a snag a bit more complicated.


My understanding of the toggles is that they are used in areas of increased tidal range, the toggle serving to control the excess line.




Regards,


Bob

[marcjsmith]

Originally Posted by deblen

We have semi balanced skeg rudders with natural "rope/culch hooks" They really need a shedder over that gap/hook.
https://www.liveabout.com/sailboat-rudder-types-2915591

yeah next haul out I'll have to add something...its a pretty tight close tolerance on the gap. with the rudder amidship. it should have shed the line. but we were beating pretty hard and working the rudder a bit. so once that gap opened up it was good and fouled.

[himnher]

Originally Posted by deblen

Sail at night,perhaps use a spotlight?
Cheers/Len

On a yacht, undersail, and all night? 😂