The GGR race, discussion and news

[barnakiel]

We too towed warps. About 100 meters (300 ft) of 16 mm rope. It was a plain banana storm in the Vizcaya. Maybe more correctly a gale because the wind only in gusts went above 40 knots and then only for short periods. I would not compare things, if not for proportionally smaller size of our boat.

On the second day I got scared enough and started towing the line, first in line, then looped. Then I added more line, again in the loop. About 150 meters total.

Towing the line open ended seemed to have zero effect on the boat, she did not even slow down much. The loop worked much better, kept us better aligned with the waves, but the boat slowed down to the point where we had no steerage for a long moment every time a breaker rolled by. Also, since we slowed down and no longer had the freedom to 'surf' with rollers, we got now pooped quite a lot and this was very scary.


Having to chose between being scared by pooped cockpit and water crashing against the washboards and scared by the vision of the boat broaching and maybe rolling, I opted for the former. This is how I know our old cockpit drains were way undersized.



If I remember well, Moitissier advocated towing warps when the storm kicks in and then (hauling the whole majdan in) letting the boat sail free and fast once the waves build long and fast. There was also at least one other big fish who said something similar, I think it was Vito Dumas (?).


But it is very hard to haul in the majdan. I tried and I think when the warps are long enough for the job, they will become to hard to retrieve. And you can't cut because you will need the whole kit again.


b.

[Snowpetrel]

Thanks Evans and Barnikiel, its always interesting hearing about others experiences. And I agree 100% with you on the smaller boats being more vulnerable to a capsize than bigger boats. I expect nearly all of them will be knocked down at some point, or maybe worse. Maybe that's part of VdH's reason for going for a shorter smaller section mast, to increase the chance of it surviving a capsize. A small thick wall section should have much less water resistance and absorb the shock loads of a capsize much better than a bigger thin wall section of similar weight. but I do think these smaller boats stand a better chance of rolling without catastrophic damage to boat or crew than something bigger.

From the latest Satcalls Mark Slats has no gloves. That's going to be a bundle of fun down south, though at 44 south it shouldn't be too bad unless he needs to hand steer for a long time. Things might get a bit nippy around 56 south near cape horn, though it should be high summer by then. Sounds like his good arrival clothes got wet and mouldy due to deck leaks, Nasty, I hate mould on a boat offshore. I once did a midwinter transtasman delivery on a 28 footer with serious mould issues. Even though we cleaned the boat from top to bottom inside with a waterblaster, jiff and bleach halfway across the mould started to take over. Everything below started growing it, books, bedding etc. We fought back but the mould kept spreading faster than we could clean it away. Horrid stuff, and I am sure it wasn't any good for our health. had to throw a bunch of books and clothes away after than and I've been hyper-sensitive to any mouldy smells since then.

Captain Coconut is in fine spirits, and visitied by Moitessiers favorite bird the fairy tern as always. Sounds like he is having a good chilled time and looking after his boat and sails carefully. His careful gameplan is in full swing, he will let all the hotshots race into the wintery southern ocean and wait till it warms up a bit...

[DawnTreader]

Isn't smaller stronger (all other things being equal) because of the square-cube law or is that over simplifying?

I think if I were setting out in a GGR style voyage I would want a smaller boat that was set up to recover from a capsize as if it were a sure thing, in conjunction with a JSD or similar to virtually increase the boats length and capsize resistance. In the GGR and Longue Route, with sailors so isolated and exposed, it seams ensuring capsize recovery to the best of their ability would be first priority and capsize resistance a close second.

There are I am sure many different ways of seeing it, but I do not think the size or age of the GGR boats equal less safe or seaworthy than larger or more modern vessels.

[estarzinger]

Originally Posted by DawnTreader

Isn't smaller stronger (all other things being equal) because of the square-cube law or is that over simplifying?

Capsize resistance goes up with the 4 power of length. I know the experience down in Puerto Williams for the Peninsula trip is that under 35' has high knockdown probability, 35-80' medium, and over '80 low.

All sizes of boats can be made strong enough . . . but oversimplifying bigger is stronger - less surface area per volume (surface area goes up with 2nd power while volume goes up with 3rd) so can have a better structure in bigger. (just for example - Bigger boats can 'afford' the weight of steel while it is a much bigger relative penalty on smaller boats).

But I think raw size is really a far secondary factor for safety down there. The skipper is the #1 factor, and #2 the quality of the design, build and, shakedown are the 2nd factor.


The mast thinking changed dramatically during our time sailing. When we started the theory was that you should cut it down and beef it up from stock. When we finished it was almost the opposite - make it higher performance to keep the speeds up in light airs allowing better weather routing and less exposure, with the added though you can always reef down.

Keel thinking is interesting - the general formulas suggest you should never even consider the various french flat bottomed centerboard boats (because of low stability). But they actually have a pretty good record down there - they may get knocked over a ways but don't seem to actually capsize all that much (with a hypothesis that they 'slide' rather than 'trip' as a deep keel boat might). With 'dumb' self-steering you most likely don't want a keel with a lot of lift - which means also naturally less windward capability.

Looks like the lead two boats will start getting wind again soon - Slats looks like he may be lucky again and be just far enough forward to stay 9in the same weather with the front two - he has really been hanging on just by the skin of his teeth to stay in the same weather as them. So far he has managed.

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by DawnTreader

(...)



I do not think the size or age of the GGR boats equal less safe or seaworthy than larger or more modern vessels.

Reduce, reduce.


Is a 60' Rustler or a 36' Rustler safer in storm conditions?


Is a new Rustler 36 or an old Rustler 36 the stronger boat?


Bigger is safer and newer is stronger.


All other factors equal.


You are only given this credit of doubt till you get wiped out in the dramatic way once. Then you start thinking, reading, etc. And sometimes you come to conclusions that are inconvenient, and incoherent with the urban legend.


A boat is NOT a corked bottle, much as FB generation wants it. Much of Tim Ferris jumbo mumbo is just that once you hit the road and try to survive out there, in the open. We live in houses and read survival books. Meanwhile aboriginal people survive in the bush, without books.



So, let's assume for a time that a boat is NOT just a corked bottle.


Andy why such an assumption?



Because there is a living creature inside that bottle and her survival chances are lower every time the bottle gets tossed hard. And when the bottle is very small, it gets tossed very often, and very hard.


Acceleration is a bad thing for LIVING CREATURES. A small object tossed by a wave gets more acceleration than a big one. When the object is a living creature, he may elect to look for a vessel that gets less acceleration. A bigger bottle.



Even worse, that living thing is not only (bruised now) meat but he also has a soul. And who has a soul gets scared and tired. The more you get tossed, the more you get scared.



Etc. All my visions, not hard facts.



Otherwise, all this is irrelevant. These are the boats there are, these are adult sailors and they are where they are - out of their own free will. All is fine.

Their choices are theirs, and the show is for us to watch. Everybody is happy, I think.



BTW I have had a longer look at the leader and I have seen Suisie' boat before. You and I will agree these are not regular boats. There is some level of modification and given the experience of the experienced participants one can be 100% certain these are modified to sail fast, to survive and to win.



What is a bit less encouraging is the age (of the sailors more that of their boats). I think RKJ was about 30 when he won, less than 30 when he took off.


I think only Susie is less than 30. All the guys out there look pretty worn and traveled. Sailing is a sport dominated by old white males. ;-)



Younger is stronger, all other things equal. My money is on the young, strong and pretty one, anyways.



b.

[barnakiel]

On the tracker, they are all neatly lined up now. And the upper pack is closing in on the lower pack. This all looks very good now. There will be plenty of action once the pass the gate and sail in new weather and in different trim. The downwind boats will show the beam reaching boats what it is all about. Or maybe not, maybe the leaders are leaders for a good reason.



I am beginning to dream up their Cape gate order. It feels like the leader is sure to pass the gate first, then maybe Slats, then who?


Or will the chasing pack set in between the leader and Slats?


And when do you think will they reach the Cape.


Of good hope, that is.


b.

[picklesandjesse]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Reduce, reduce.


Is a 60' Rustler or a 36' Rustler safer in storm conditions?


Is a new Rustler 36 or an old Rustler 36 the stronger boat?


Bigger is safer and newer is stronger.


All other factors equal.


You are only given this credit of doubt till you get wiped out in the dramatic way once. Then you start thinking, reading, etc. And sometimes you come to conclusions that are inconvenient, and incoherent with the urban legend.


A boat is NOT a corked bottle, much as FB generation wants it. Much of Tim Ferris jumbo mumbo is just that once you hit the road and try to survive out there, in the open. We live in houses and read survival books. Meanwhile aboriginal people survive in the bush, without books.



So, let's assume for a time that a boat is NOT just a corked bottle.




What is a bit less encouraging is the age (of the sailors more that of their boats). I think RKJ was about 30 when he won, less than 30 when he took off.


I think only Susie is less than 30. All the guys out there look pretty worn and traveled. Sailing is a sport dominated by old white males. ;-)



Younger is stronger, all other things equal. My money is on the young, strong and pretty one, anyways.



b.

You make some very good points here. I'm now 74 and it's been 4 years since my last long singlehanded passage. I've been following this race and reading all the posts sometimes at night from the comfort of a warm bed.

I sometimes lay there and imagine I'm in the Southern Ocean and all hell breaks loose above me on deck....... now I have to deal with it. Not sure I could anymore and yet I have the urge to try one more time. This could be dementia I think. Anyway I could not try with the current boat so would have to sell it first and find a more suitable one. Might be dead by then. Anyone want a scary 33ft trimaran? Cheap at $79k.

[Terje Vigen]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

I am beginning to dream up their Cape gate order. It feels like the leader is sure to pass the gate first, then maybe Slats, then who?

My bet is Are Wiig in the OE32

[El Pinguino]

I think vdH may have been a bit too clever for his own good and that the left wingers, including all the grey men, are back in with a chance.

I wonder if any will follow 'Ping's Most Amazing Rule 1022 (Patent Pending )' ?

20 kts over the deck works for me... esp if it is a nice warm NWly.....

[GILow]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

....I wonder if any will follow 'Ping's Most Amazing Rule 1022 (Patent Pending )' ?



...

First they must UNDERSTAND ‘Ping’s Most Amazing Rule 1022’.

Just sayin.

[GILow]

So... am I missing it or has there been any discussion of the Joshua Golden Globe One Design boats yet?

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by GILow

First they must UNDERSTAND ‘Ping’s Most Amazing Rule 1022’.

Just sayin.

They don't have to understand it... they just have to follow it....

Baro rises above 1022.... right hand down a bit....

Baro falls below 1022... left hand down a bit....

And watch out for the Rat Hole....

[GILow]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

They don't have to understand it... they just have to follow it....

Baro rises above 1022.... right hand down a bit....

Baro falls below 1022... left hand down a bit....

And watch out for the Rat Hole....

Oh. Is that all? Yeah, everyone knows THAT rule.

I twisted my ankle in one of those rat holes once. Very painful.

[Terje Vigen]

How do the contenders and their boat sit in the GGR going forward?
Interesting personal impressions of founder and race chairman Don McIntyre on each of them, as they are heading into the Southern Ocean
You OK? the Boat’s OK? Sort of - Golden Globe Race

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by GILow

So... am I missing it or has there been any discussion of the Joshua Golden Globe One Design boats yet?

You mean the terrible design? The one that even her mother did not love and sold her for USD 1 to an utter stranger at Cabo San Lucas?

Well, not much found. Seen some computer renderings.

Do you have more info on the design perhaps?

I for, one, noted a bowsprit. A red bowsprit, fit for the 21 century. ;-)

b.