Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooling

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by Capt Phil

My cat just farted! Should I shoot it?

No, of course not that would be terrible, far better for you to buy carbon credits from me or Third Day My credits are more green than his though, thought you should know.

[zeehag]

i wanna know how is ffoozinator gonna finance his war effort and what he thinks taxing an overburdened populace monetarily is gonna do for the planet. and i wanna know
why he thinks we willnot modify and morph as the previous inhabitants of this same planet did to get to where we are today. does he think all stands still and the climate changing, which by the way is a constant--change-- the main constant of the planet ...goes merrily along killing of everything??
lets get real. life forms morph and change constantly.
planet changes constantly.
what gain is a useless carbon/ life tax gonna do for the planet?? who will benefit from taxation for nothing? climate change tax?? hell climate changes by itself it doesnt need humans to consider themselves mighty enough to change it permanently.
it seems to me that folks should spend more time worrying on what plague is gonna killem. is more realistic than climate changes wiping out humanity..unless humanity is too stoopit to accommodate changes.
oh yes, and yer momma dont work here--clean up after yourself.

[Foozinator]

Originally Posted by zeehag

i wanna know how is ffoozinator gonna finance his war effort and what he thinks taxing an overburdened populace monetarily is gonna do for the planet. and i wanna know
why he thinks we willnot modify and morph as the previous inhabitants of this same planet did to get to where we are today. does he think all stands still and the climate changing, which by the way is a constant--change-- the main constant of the planet ...goes merrily along killing of everything??
lets get real. life forms morph and change constantly.
planet changes constantly.
what gain is a useless carbon/ life tax gonna do for the planet?? who will benefit from taxation for nothing? climate change tax?? hell climate changes by itself it doesnt need humans to consider themselves mighty enough to change it permanently.

Please don't put words into my mouth.

I already said I don't think the climate is constant (post #56).
I've already said I don't agree with carbon taxes (post #76).
Pretty sure my comment in #81 covers the idea of changing the climate permanently.
I think the "finance the war effort" comment is covered in post #126.

Yes, we change and adapt. Ask Venice, the Maldives, or the Dutch about sea level. Ask New Orleans or New York about storm surges. And everything I've heard/read talks about these changes over decades or (usually) a hundred years or more.

You seem so sure we have no power to affect the climate. What if you're wrong? We've already proven we can trash environments, level mountains, wipe out forests, and drive several species to extinction. I've heard the Mediterranean used to be a place with rich varieties of fish. I'll never get to see that place.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Foozinator

You seem so sure we have no power to affect the climate. What if you're wrong? We've already proven we can trash environments, level mountains, wipe out forests, and drive several species to extinction. I've heard the Mediterranean used to be a place with rich varieties of fish. I'll never get to see that place.

And the N Atlantic used to be awash with Cod.. so now we're in the S Atlantic hovering up Krill.. what happens further up-species when we've looted their food source.. many of the old Tribal Taboo's had a reason.. then along came 'White Trash'... and 'Baby look at us Now'...
Look around.. we cant even clean up last weeks waste heap and you reckon we can clear up over 100yrs.. no.. all we can do is Hang on and enjoy the ride... we drew the 'Go to Jail Free' card around my 2nd Birthday..

[Foozinator]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Look around.. we cant even clean up last weeks waste heap and you reckon we can clear up over 100yrs.. no.. all we can do is Hang on and enjoy the ride... we drew the 'Go to Jail Free' card around my 2nd Birthday..

I disagree with the "it's too hard" argument. If we never tried because something was too hard, we never would have climbed Mt. Everest, or broken the sound barrier, or the 120 years or so of medical technology.

Cure cancer? Too hard. Why bother?

[exMaggieDrum]

Originally Posted by boatman61

And the N Atlantic used to be awash with Cod.. so now we're in the S Atlantic hovering up Krill.. what happens further up-species when we've looted their food source.. many of the old Tribal Taboo's had a reason.. then along came 'White Trash'... and 'Baby look at us Now'...
Look around.. we cant even clean up last weeks waste heap and you reckon we can clear up over 100yrs.. no.. all we can do is Hang on and enjoy the ride... we drew the 'Go to Jail Free' card around my 2nd Birthday..

Whether or not we can clean up the prior waste heap is different than whether we can afford to still generate more waste heaps that we can't clean up. Actually, not being able to clean up waste heaps is a very strong argument to not allow any more waste heaps.

I personally think carbon credits are only a way to allow polluters to keep on polluting, just in an officially sanctioned way, with a s**t load of bureaucracy thrown in.

Colorado is "littered" with hundreds and hundreds of old, and current mines, with extremely toxic (as in highly concentrated cyanide and poisonous metals among other things). These are, slowly, being cleaned up at great expense. Unfortunately the people who caused these hazards made all their money and then left the s**t for others to clean up. It seems that unless you force some people to keep things clean in the first place they won't do it. I am all for rights to do anything but your rights end right at the point that you take away my right to an unpoisoned life.

Right now there are lots of arguments about things that are hard to see, smell and touch (pollutants in the upper atmosphere) - how much is too bad, do they really harm anything, will Mother Earth do something worse, etc. etc. ad nauseum. Then there are things which you can actually clean up, and actual species you can stop annihilating, that you can actually see, smell, touch. Anyone who argues against those things is just saying that it is Ok for you to kill you now so long as you want to and can make a nickel while I do it (or just for fun), i.e. freedom to kill.

[zeehag]

we cannot correct what hs been done whether by man or by mother nature. we CAN clean up after selves and respect others, something which seems to have stopped before my generation was in teens. sadly.

and we can STOP BURNING RAIN FORESTS!!!!!

[Curious Sailor]

This just in.... "Forum Warming" is accelerating faster than scientists expected! The heat is on!

Lol... You guys are so cool... Love this place...

[Udacha]

Nah, I think it's slowing down

[Jim Cate]

There are approximately seven billion reasons that the earth is becoming a less pleasant place to live. There does not seem to be a morally or politically practical means of reducing that number. I suspect that a means neither morally or politically desirable will in the (likely near term) future achieve that reduction. It won't be pretty.

Jim (who is normally a pretty optimistic guy)

[Curious Sailor]

Originally Posted by Udacha

Nah, I think it's slowing down

Lol... Ahh I see, now it's "Forum Cooling"!

[StuM]

Originally Posted by Udacha

Nah, I think it's slowing down

It certainly looks as though the ratio of warmistas to skeptics joining in similar discussions over the last couple of years has definitely moved to the cool side.

Don't know whether that's because we've converted a few or just a case of the alarmists not being able to logically support their beliefs so they don't participate as much.

[Capt Phil]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

No, of course not that would be terrible, far better for you to buy carbon credits from me or Third Day My credits are more green than his though, thought you should know.

No Worries, a64... When I dug out my glock, my cat turned green but thanks for the offer! Cheers, Phil

[conachair]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

There are approximately seven billion reasons that the earth is becoming a less pleasant place to live. There does not seem to be a morally or politically practical means of reducing that number. I suspect that a means neither morally or politically desirable will in the (likely near term) future achieve that reduction. It won't be pretty.

Jim (who is normally a pretty optimistic guy)

All those monkeys with guns and money don't have a chance of influencing the path of a species. even when it's so blatantly obvious that basing an entire civilisation on energy achieved by digging up billions of tonnes of hydrocarbons due up from the ground is a really really bad idea for any kind of time span greater than a blink of an eye.....

[K_V_B]

Originally Posted by Foozinator

You seem so sure we have no power to affect the climate. What if you're wrong? We've already proven we can trash environments, level mountains, wipe out forests, and drive several species to extinction. I've heard the Mediterranean used to be a place with rich varieties of fish. I'll never get to see that place.

I think we do affect that climate, but do not have the "power" to affect the way we affect the climate. Humans have been influencing their environment for millennia. There is a theory that the little ice age was caused by the reforesting of the Americas after plagues that the Europeans brought over killed most of the natives.
People come to Switzerland, to admire the "Natural beauty" of the country not realising that the landscape is actaully the consequence of several thousands of years of intensive use by humans, and is not natural at all.
We have been influencing the earht and it has been influencing us. It has not always been benign, it has often been unexpected. And there is not much we can do about it.
If burning fossil fuels will heat up the planet, then the planet will be heated up. Every litre of oil I don't burn someone else will burn after all.

The best thing is to just be resourcefull, and adaptable. If the Dutch could deal with rising sea levels in the 17th century, then I think that Bangladesh will be ok in the 21st.

Oh, and there is still a lot of fish in the med... But yes, fish farming is taking off there too.