Protocol for demanding a captain make his presence known

[jsc7]

Originally Posted by denverd0n

And yet here you are thinking that somehow you can DEMAND that a captain respond to you, and asking a bunch of strangers on an internet forum how to do that.

If a vessel is adrift or otherwise out of control, my understanding is that the master has a duty to make his presence known to any approaching vessels and demonstrate that the vessel is helmed.

A captain cannot just let his ship drift out of control and hide below decks. If, for some reason a captain is compelled to be below deck and wishes to continue to drift out of control, then he must display a "KEEP CLEAR" signal flag, so that other vessels know not to approach.

[boatman61]

No.. he hangs two black balls/red lights vertically to signal he's not under command or making way.
And.. he has no obligation to man the helm..

[StuM]

Originally Posted by jsc7

If a vessel is adrift or otherwise out of control, my understanding is that the master has a duty to make his presence known to any approaching vessels and demonstrate that the vessel is helmed.

And just where did you draw that understanding from?

A captain cannot just let his ship drift out of control and hide below decks.

Why not? What do you thing a solo sailor does when resting at sea?

If, for some reason a captain is compelled to be below deck and wishes to continue to drift out of control, then he must display a "KEEP CLEAR" signal flag, so that other vessels know not to approach.

What is a "KEEP CLEAR FLAG"? Certainly nothing like that in The International Regulations for Preventing Collisions at Sea 1972 (Colregs)

You really are arguing from a point of ignorance, aren't you.

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by skipmac

As usual MarkJ appears in a nick of time with appropriate comic relief.

☺☺☺☺😶

[SV Bacchus]

So OP hooks up to a drifting vessel without boarding.

Tows to nearest port.

Then someone else finds the bodies..

Oops!

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by jsc7

If a vessel is adrift or otherwise out of control, my understanding is that the master has a duty to make his presence known to any approaching vessels and demonstrate that the vessel is helmed.

A captain cannot just let his ship drift out of control and hide below decks. If, for some reason a captain is compelled to be below deck and wishes to continue to drift out of control, then he must display a "KEEP CLEAR" signal flag, so that other vessels know not to approach.

There is no such word as "helmed", in the nautical lexicon.

There is no such thing as a "keep clear flag".

In case a vessel is not under command and not able to comply with collision avoidance rules, it is supposed to show NUC signals. But that is none of your business, and his doing so or failing to do so gives you no rights of any kind.

Your question has been clearly answered. You have no right to demand anything from another skipper (unless you are in distress), and if he wants to "hide below decks", that is, likewise, none of your business. He has no obligation of any kind to "make his presence known", to "show himself", or to talk to you, at all, unless you are in distress and require his assistance.


Your question is obviously part of research into trying to make money by salvaging some abandoned vessel. Well, good luck with that. There are not many abandoned vessels of any value, just floating around in the sea. Marine salvage is a laborious and risky business -- if you want to get into that business, then you will need to become a seaman (or hire some seamen), buy or lease and equip an appropriate vessel, and roll up your sleeves. Some people make some money at it, but almost always only after years of hard work and lots of investment. Abandoned pleasure boats which are really abandoned by their owners, are practically always worth less than nothing -- and often come with significant liabilities. If they ARE worth something to their legal owners, then as has been explained above, you will not gain title to them just by salvaging them. You will get the right to a reasonable reward from the legal owner. There isn't really any easy money in marine salvage.


And yes, like Stumble, I am a lawyer, and I agree 100% with everything he said.





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[Calif.Ted]

As a retired fire department Captain I can also tell you that Captains of any kind do not respond well to "demands".

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by jsc7

If a boat is drifting and unmanned, it is sufficient grounds for towing (salvaging) it. That is my understanding of Federal admiralty law. It is true that a couple of states, including Florida, have laws that could be construed as forbidding a private person from salvaging vessels (at all) even if they are abandoned and drifting. I suspect those laws are likely unconstitutional and consequently are never actually used. If that is not true, and boaters who have towed a derelict vessel in Florida have actually been prosecuted, I would be interested to know about those cases, because it would be legally educational for me, and I think useful to know from a seamanship point of view how to handle maritime distress situations.

Hello jsc7
To clarify, if a boat is found to be drifting, unnamed and apparently 'Not under Command' (it could be a drone ship), then there are a number of protocols you must follow.

First, whatever the jurisdiction of the waters you are in, you cannot endanger the unmanned vessel , by undertaking any salvage attempts, without a formal attempt to contact the registered Owners thru its flag of registry.

Exceptions are when the stricken vessel is in danger of foundering on a shoreline and even then, protocol is to radio local Coast Guard and inform them of the situation and ask permission to "save" the vessel.

The owners of an abandoned ship at sea have legal rights and Salvage Rights must be by mutual agreement under a variety of salvage forms, depending on jurisdiction and registry.

So you must first standby until you get permission from country of registry or local jurisdiction that has some form of "reciever of wrecks" authority.

Salvors Compensation claims are based on the peril and costs they endured to "save" the vessel once awarded salvage rights and that needs to be well documented.

Bottom line is that you cannot throw a hook on a drifting and abandoned vessel and salvage without formal permission.

FYI, I have done pacific northwest winter salvage operations in my early towing days of abandoned ships due to fire or structural storm damage, after the crew were safely removed and the protocols are quite strict to safeguard the Owners.

[lesterbutch]

Originally Posted by jsc7

Another comment: some of the posters in this thread seem to assume that a salvor would board the vessel which they are taking into possession.

Nowhere, either in my original question, nor in any of my subsequent posts did I suggest boarding the derelict vessel.

It is not necessary to board a vessel to take it under tow.

You cannot be serious? You would take a vessel under tow without knowing if someone were inside sick or injured or worse? I believe the surviving relatives would have a real case for culpable negligence!

[boatman61]

Ahh.. its back.. good to see its not just restricted to Mods only..

[Ken Z]

a horn, 2 long blasts, depending on location, and type of vessel, beware of pirates. board at your own risk.

[davil]

"I suspect I know US admiralty law better than you do."

do not get your strange question,on your words,knowing "Admiralty Law better than you"seems you will know the answer.
But may be no?

[michaeld]

Vessels greater than 12 meters, as described above, should identify as NUC with either day shapes or navigation lights (two vertical balls or red over red). It's in the COLREGS.

[Cadence]

I would say give it a good try and then give her a wide birth. Advise the appropriate authorities when available. Give up the nonsense about salvage or is it piracy?

[zstine]

So I am curious, as a boat owner, is there a way to leave your vessel adrift without it being subject to salvage/seizure?

Hypothetical example... total windless day, I'm 5 to 15 miles off shore and my engine dies... need a raw water impeller but don't have a spare. I jump in my fast dinghy, run to shore and grab an impeller while my boat drifts. I'm back in an hour or 2... Is my vessel subject to seizure while gone?? Are there any signals I can fly to say "adrift for now, but be back soon" that would not make it legal to seize? There is a "keep clear, maneuvering with difficulty" flag. Is that appropriate? Not sure what NUC signal is..? I read "two black balls/red lights vertical" for not under command. Does that protect my vessel from seizure if left adrift? And, assuming I didn't put up a signal, am I correct my vessel is then subject to seizure?

thanks, maybe this will help the OP