Protocol for demanding a captain make his presence known

[jsc7]

Originally Posted by Adelie

I suspect it is more complex than that. A normal salvor would be leery of pushing the envelope on salvage.

On the other hand there are probably plenty of folks that would try to use salvage law as a pretext to take a boat who's status was indeterminate and the prosecutors would happily prosecute. Fortunately those people don't tend to be bright enough to go that route.

Originally Posted by Stumble

I charge $250/hr for legal research. Feel free to pm me to set up a retainer agreement if you want a legal opinion.

For free I a man happy to just tell you that you are wrong.

Hmm, ok, that is not very much to go on. I only asked because I assumed a maritime attorney would know of such a case off of the top of their head--if such a case existed. In any event, these legal issues are tangential to the question of the original post.

I suppose if I have some time over the weekend I might research it myself on Lexis-Nexis and determine with finality whether such a case exists.

[Larry Florida]

Originally Posted by deblen

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_salvage

Seems towing or attempt to take possession is considered theft in Florida. Good for Florida.

[Sea Dreaming]

Originally Posted by skipmac

As usual MarkJ appears in a nick of time with appropriate comic relief.

I dunno...I thought the op was doing pretty good on his own!
Though I give Mark J high points for a perfect Groucho Marks impersonation!

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by jsc7

I am a novice sailor, most assuredly, and am not a lawyer but I am experienced in the courtroom and I have won every case I have tried (all pro se).

In any case, the question is really not about the law, it is about seamanship and how to properly approach and deal with a derelict vessel to determine if a captain is present.

You can keep asking the same question different ways.

The answers won't change.

Sorry.

[AKA-None]

I understand there are plenty of derelict boats in Richardson harbor that you could try your technique on. Let us know how that works out as I'm really interested in the outcome.

[masonc]

Use your transporter to beam down a search party. When faced with a dilemma, always ask yourself, what would James T. Kirk have done.

[nematon785]

This is a great opportunity. Many municipalities are stuck with the tab for clearing abandoned and derelict vessels, often at quite a large cost. Now they can just tow them out to sea, and set them loose, and our illustrious OP will then acquire them through pure salvage and tow them to his home. everyone is happy

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by leftbrainstuff

.. .
There is an expectation, but not a mandated obligation, that we will render assistance to others..

Huh?

http://solasv.mcga.gov.uk/regulations/regulation33.htm



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[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by jsc7

I would never board a crewed vessel without permission. The question is not about a crewed vessel. The question is the proper way to summon the crew if no crew is visible and the ship appears to be adrift and out of control.

I'm going to suspend disbelief and assume for a moment that you're not trolling us.

There is no "official procedure", and the crew of another vessel has no obligation to "show themselves" or even talk to you at all, unless you are in distress yourself. You need to forget the word "demand". The crew may be in the heads, may be asleep (single hander), may be making love below -- whatever it is, it's none of your business.

If you have reason to believe that another crew is in distress, then you are obligated to render assistance provided doing so does not cause unreasonable risk to your own crew or vessel.

If the vessel is abandoned, or drifting ashore, or sinking, etc., then you may attempt salvage, following all the rules. Salvage does not involve any "seizing" (!), and does not give you any ownership of the salvaged vessel. Ownership stays with the owner unless and until a court decides to allow the execution of a lien, and in the mean time, you have a duty towards the owner of the vessel, to carry out the salvage operation with due care, failing which the owner can sue you for any damage you cause to his vessel or his cargo. If you succeed with your salvage operation, you get the right to reasonable compensation as determined by a court. For towing in calm weather, 10% of the value of the vessel might be a typical salvage award. If the owner of the vessel doesn’t pay your salvage award after being ordered by a court, you might get a lien on the vessel.

If the owner can't be identified, and the vessel doesn't appear to have any intrinsic value to the legal owner, then there may be other procedures, determined by local law, and the "finder" might be given title to the vessel if the legal authority doesn't want it. But again, the "finder" doesn't have any rights with regard to the vessel unless and until the legal authorities make a decision to grant some rights.

Any meddling with the property of another, abandoned or not, which does not strictly comply with the rules of salvage, is a criminal offense.

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[boatman61]

[QUOTE=jsc7;2375196]I suspect I know US admiralty law better than you do.
[QUOTE]

In that case.. How come you don't know the answer to your question..??

[Davidhoy]

Originally Posted by Larry Florida

Seems towing or attempt to take possession is considered theft in Florida. Good for Florida.

I think you misunderstand the law and its intent. It is perfectly legal to salvage a vessel adrift or otherwise in distress, and then make a claim on the value of the vessel and its cargo. But it's not legal to claim ownership of any vessel, even seemingly abandoned or derelict, without going through the proper process. Salvage and ownership are not the same thing!

[jsc7]

[QUOTE=boatman61;2375432][QUOTE=jsc7;2375196]I suspect I know US admiralty law better than you do.

In that case.. How come you don't know the answer to your question..??

Because the process for hailing another vessel with no visible crew is not a matter of law, it is matter of knowing the common practices.

I can guess what procedures a jury might consider sufficient, but I was hoping to get some kind of authoritative answer from an experienced master. (Unfortunately, what I got instead was one semi-useful answer and about 15 snide remarks and hostile comments.)

[Sailmonkey]

[QUOTE=jsc7;2375439][QUOTE=boatman61;2375432]

Originally Posted by jsc7

I suspect I know US admiralty law better than you do.


Because the process for hailing another vessel with no visible crew is not a matter of law, it is matter of knowing the common practices.

I can guess what procedures a jury might consider sufficient, but I was hoping to get some kind of authoritative answer from an experienced master. (Unfortunately, what I got instead was one semi-useful answer and about 15 snide remarks and hostile comments.)

You got the comments and remarks you did because of your wording, and the nature of the question.

When I read it, and your follow ups, my mind wanders to several adjectives. Frivolous, and obnoxious both come to mind.

[denverd0n]

Originally Posted by jsc7

I suspect I know US admiralty law better than you do.

And yet here you are, thinking that somehow you can DEMAND that a captain respond to you, and asking a bunch of strangers on an internet forum how to make that happen.

[boatman61]

[QUOTE=jsc7;2375439][QUOTE=boatman61;2375432]

Originally Posted by jsc7

I suspect I know US admiralty law better than you do.


Because the process for hailing another vessel with no visible crew is not a matter of law, it is matter of knowing the common practices.

I can guess what procedures a jury might consider sufficient, but I was hoping to get some kind of authoritative answer from an experienced master. (Unfortunately, what I got instead was one semi-useful answer and about 15 snide remarks and hostile comments.)

The problem is you asked pleasure boaters the question.. we tend to circle round the boat maybe blowing a fog horn or hailing the boat by voice.. if no response and conditions permitting we may go alongside or dinghy across to make sure of the situation.. skipper unconscious/weak from fever/broken leg.. whatever..
If no one's on board one can then choose to either take the vessel in tow, put a crew on board or.. log the position and inform the authorities as soon as possible.. if in open ocean use a passing commercial vessel as a Relay..
If you want a formal procedure thats internationally recognised then contact the US Navy/CG.. they will have a formatted protocol for the interception and seizure of vessels in coastal/open waters
Oh..!!! and then there's the ultimate option.. do a Lord Nelson and just sail on by..