Protocol for demanding a captain make his presence known

[taxwizz]

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

Hm... If I find you with your balls up the mast, would I be justified in assuming that you are TOTALLY outta control - again ;-0)?

TP

And quite probably in need of assistance.

[Capt Phil]

This thread reminds me of a sunny day in Blackfish Sound just outside of Alert Bay near the top end of Vancouver Island. I was driving a salmon seiner for Nelson Bros Fisheries and came upon a troller doing lazy circles at around 5 knots. I shadowed her for a while and recognized her as one of the fleet from Village Island, a local Indian village.
We came along side and tied off and I went below the troller to find the skipper/owner unconscious on the floor of the small galley. He subsequently died a few minutes later. I called the RCMP in Alert Bay and asked where they wanted the vessel and body towed. Because the only folks we( both the RCMP Officer and I) knew could possibly identify the body was in the village, he asked me to tow the troller there and he would jump in his skiff and meet us there. Short trip back to Village Island and the cop was there when we arrived. He put crime scene tape around the boat after we secured her to the small dock, grilled us on whether he was alive when we boarded, did we move the body, did one of my crew drive the troller back to Village Island and a few other fairly mundane questions. Took our names and asked we check in by R/T from wherever we were fishing and released us. I assume that he got someone from the assembled crowd to ID the body and heard later the guy had a heart attack.
The boat passed to his family and they were out fishing within a week. Circle of life, I guess.
Probably a little more complicated now... this was in the late 50's.
Phil

[zstine]

Originally Posted by Davidhoy

Interesting question, but I don't think I'd leave my boat unless lives were in danger. In your scenario, how would you even be sure to relocate your boat upon your return, as it could drift many miles depending on the current.

Regardless, your boat cannot be "seized" - this implies law enforcement/CG is doing the seizing, unlikely unless you're carrying drugs. I do believe that any unmanned vessel would be a likely salvage target, but that this not the same as seizure. It will be interesting to see how the "unmanned vessel" concept evolves as we see more and more drones and other types of autonomous vessels.

Hi, well the reason for leaving the boat is not really relevant to my question of 'how do you leave a boat adrift without it being subject to salvage?'
If you want it to be 'lives in danger' fine.. imagine, you are 5 - 15 miles offshore in dead clam and your wife gets seriously injured. You call an ambulance to the nearest pier, hop in the tender b/c it's much faster than the big boat, and you leave your big boat adrift to deliver your wife ashore. How can you do this and not be subject to salvage? Is there a signal, like 2 black balls/red lights, that would legally protect your vessel from salvage?

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by zstine

Hi, well the reason for leaving the boat is not really relevant to my question of 'how do you leave a boat adrift without it being subject to salvage?'
If you want it to be 'lives in danger' fine.. imagine, you are 5 - 15 miles offshore in dead clam and your wife gets seriously injured. You call an ambulance to the nearest pier, hop in the tender b/c it's much faster than the big boat, and you leave your big boat adrift to deliver your wife ashore. How can you do this and not be subject to salvage? Is there a signal, like 2 black balls/red lights, that would legally protect your vessel from salvage?

Don't know about 'legally protecting from salvage' but.. it would/should deter folks from getting to close.
This relies on them knowing the ColRegs.. which is dubious..

[Sea Dreaming]

Isn't there a rule regarding salvage that one must face considerable danger to claim salvage rights? I believe this rule is to deter anyone who would just tow your boat, without boarding, just because they can. I haven't bothered to look up this up, so I'm probably getting it wrong.
But honestly - there seems to be a HUGE ethical disconnect from reality if one thinks "finders keepers" just because the vessel appears to be unmanned. Troll indeed. I

[buzzstar]

"Appears to be adrift and unhelmed." If that is the case what reason is there to expect anyone to appear, let alone demand that they do? Is it not your obligation to investigate? To render aid if needed? Certainly to use sound (horn & radio) maybe light to try to attract attention. Where are you and what you you see also enters into a decision. Just as an example, you might do one thing in your local sailing area, but another off the coast of one of the more remote Indonesian islands. Maybe the occupants of the other vessel are pirates ready to jump you. Maybe the crew is ill. Maybe the captain is solo and below and asleep, although although if I do that I would usually be hove to and improperly have an anchor light lit. Should you board? Depends, but there are potential dangers, although I do not think you being called a pirate is one of them unless you have improper motive or behave as one. Too many variable for a proper answer.

[barnakiel]

They normally ask you over the vhf. If you do not act, they will come closer by and use the horn and maybe searchlights, etc. to bring you on the deck.

If that's what you mean.

b.

[Sea Dreaming]

Originally Posted by buzzstar

"Appears to be adrift and unhelmed." If that is the case what reason is there to expect anyone to appear, let alone demand that they do? Is it not your obligation to investigate? To render aid if needed? Certainly to use sound (horn & radio) maybe light to try to attract attention. Where are you and what you you see also enters into a decision. Just as an example, you might do one thing in your local sailing area, but another off the coast of one of the more remote Indonesian islands. Maybe the occupants of the other vessel are pirates ready to jump you. Maybe the crew is ill. Maybe the captain is solo and below and asleep, although although if I do that I would usually be hove to and improperly have an anchor light lit. Should you board? Depends, but there are potential dangers, although I do not think you being called a pirate is one of them unless you have improper motive or behave as one. Too many variable for a proper answer.

My guess is that the OP would not be able to tell the difference from hove to and adrift.

[muttnik]

Originally Posted by jsc7

what I got instead was one semi-useful answer and about 15 snide remarks and hostile comments.

If you thought Dockhead's answer was only "semi-useful" you should probably give up now. I think we'd all be interested to know what the purpose of the question was. This is the "seamanship and boat handling" forum. I believe "seamanship", on discovering an apparently abandoned boat, would be to first think about safety: safety of those potentially on board the vessel in question but incapacitated, safety of other vessels and implications of any actions on the safety of your own vessel and crew. You are *apparently* asking a question from the standpoint that your first thought is making a fast buck from the misfortune of others. If that is the case, as the "hostile" commenters are assuming, you are in the wrong forum. If that is not the case, if you're researching the plot for a novel or if folks here have misinterpreted and unfairly assumed base motivation, I'm sure the reaction will be different if you make the purpose of the question clear.

Originally Posted by zstine

Are there any signals I can fly to say "adrift for now, but be back soon"

You could try bravo-romeo-<first substitute>, but don't blame me if there's a helicopter unloading dangerous cargo above your boat when you return.

[Shrew]

Originally Posted by Sea Dreaming

Isn't there a rule regarding salvage that one must face considerable danger to claim salvage rights? I believe this rule is to deter anyone who would just tow your boat, without boarding, just because they can.

Nope. I had a boat drag anchor while I was ashore. The boat was unoccupied at the time. The boat behind me tossed out fenders and 'caught' us. A Tow/Salvage company came by and towed the boat to a USCG mooring.

I was then given a bill for $5,000 USD for the 'salvage'. by the tow company. It was a legal salvage claim. My insurance paid them $2,500 and told them to pound sand (technically they said "You're welcome to fight for the remainder in court. We have an entire staff of lawyers, do you?")

[KetoNomad]

Originally Posted by Paul Elliott

"Failing that, get close and throw potatoes?

I got a belly laugh from that, thank you

[Stumble]

Originally Posted by zstine

Hi, well the reason for leaving the boat is not really relevant to my question of 'how do you leave a boat adrift without it being subject to salvage?'
If you want it to be 'lives in danger' fine.. imagine, you are 5 - 15 miles offshore in dead clam and your wife gets seriously injured. You call an ambulance to the nearest pier, hop in the tender b/c it's much faster than the big boat, and you leave your big boat adrift to deliver your wife ashore. How can you do this and not be subject to salvage? Is there a signal, like 2 black balls/red lights, that would legally protect your vessel from salvage?

No, in this case you physically abandoned (though not legally) the vessel which immediately makes her subject to a salvage claim. In order to make a salvage claim all the claimant has to show is that
1) there was a maritime peril
2) that help was rendered without prior obligation
3) rescue was sucessful in whole or in part

In is case the person who finds a vessel adrift, with no one onboard, would be entitled to tow the vessel to port and make a maritime salvage claim against her. The amount of that claim could be disputed, but is generally quite substantial as a percentage of the vessel's value.

[Stumble]

Originally Posted by Sea Dreaming

Isn't there a rule regarding salvage that one must face considerable danger to claim salvage rights? I believe this rule is to deter anyone who would just tow your boat, without boarding, just because they can. I haven't bothered to look up this up, so I'm probably getting it wrong.
But honestly - there seems to be a HUGE ethical disconnect from reality if one thinks "finders keepers" just because the vessel appears to be unmanned. Troll indeed. I

No, the only peril you have to face is if it is a maritime peril. The level of danger the salvaging vessel takes or is only related to the size of the award.


There is a substantial policy preference for large salvage awards, since the industry wants to incintivise people going out and rescuing distressed vessels. The courts have made this clear since about 1,400 or so, probably earlier, that it is Bette rather for a salvagor to be rewarded handsomely than to let the salvaged vessel sink.

But note you do not get to keep the stuff, or the vessel. You have to go to court and file a lien against the stuff. Then the court will assign an award based on a multifactor test, but up to around 40% of the value of what was saved isn't crazy.

[SVSelkie]

So the OP has posted sequential threads regarding salvaging a vessel, docking at a marina during a storm, AND minimum size of a vessel for coastal cruising. One can infer from these posts the OP wishes to tie up to vessels where the crew may be sleeping and attempt to tow them without boarding due to his inquisition on what would be required to hail a possibly abandoned vessel. The demand of appearance from the master statements further back up this. (Possibly going off the idea that land tow trucks typically get paid a fee when they hook up to a vehicle before releasing?)

He also stated that he is not a lawyer, but has won court cases. That is an interesting statement.

Interesting thread.

[Cadence]

How stupid is this. A boat not in peril report it. If going on the rocks and if you have a boat capable of towing her off, I'd be on the radio with my intentions and asking for assistance. It may just be a single hander needing a break if well off shore leave it alone.