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Old 03-06-2013, 07:49   #271
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Re: Missing Boat found in Cuba: Lessons Learned

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Lee side? I prefer being on the high -- windward side.........
Do I really have to say that you are pi**ing into the wind
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Old 03-06-2013, 08:02   #272
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pirate Re: Missing Boat found in Cuba: Lessons Learned

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Do I really have to say that you are pi**ing into the wind
Not to mention all over yourself...
For me its a stroll up the leeward side to the mast... one arm round each shroud... that way I'm secure for the unzip... action... final curtain after the performance... then wander back to the cockpit.
Not only provides relief but also a quick inspection on what's happening up forward that may not be noticed from the cockpit.
Circumstances/conditions that don't permit this a Long Life milk bottle with a 2" diameter top is perfect..
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Old 03-06-2013, 08:09   #273
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Re: Missing Boat found in Cuba: Lessons Learned

I have a boat with 2 spacious heads. Theres no reason whatsoever to pee over the side!
Its more comefortable below in one oft he heads.
Its easier.
More places to brace

and it doesnt revolt the rest of the boat!

Sailing or at anchor I never pee over the side. And NONE of my guests do either. They are shown to the Heads.

But most important is for safety. Even doing it at anchor flat calm its breading a bad habit.

NEVER piddle anywhere except in the head and then thats the natural place to do it. It sounds like puppy dog training.
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Old 03-06-2013, 08:16   #274
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Re: Missing Boat found in Cuba: Lessons Learned

Peeing over the side of the boat, what a bunch of savages! Can not believe people would post doing so as something acceptable! What else is allowed on your boat?

I can not think of any situation where peeing over the side of the boat is a safer/smarter answer than going below. If it is that important to stay at the helm it is time to pee your pants, if you haven't already.
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Old 03-06-2013, 08:39   #275
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There's a lot of stuff about guys peeing over the side...
How do you guys do this... just wondering... not the technique... more the location one chose's to perform this death defying feat... and safeguards against 'going over the top'...
Only on the hard

Budget may be tight some days but never so bad that you can't afford a pot to p!ss in.
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Old 03-06-2013, 08:54   #276
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pirate Re: Missing Boat found in Cuba: Lessons Learned

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Only on the hard

Budget may be tight some days but never so bad that you can't afford a pot to p!ss in.
Rather go over the top when the boats in the water... a guy in Portimao broke his back a few years back falling of the deck while on the hard... another Oyster owner in Panama had a similar bad experience... don't think he was having a pee at the time tho'...

PS; Please note... when you alter my posts don't exaggerate the content with 'Death Defying'... it scares the children...
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Old 03-06-2013, 10:03   #277
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Re: Missing Boat found in Cuba: Lessons Learned

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Perhaps excessive thread drift but here goes....
Always on the lee side.....
Short tether.....
One hand on a stay and the other on cabin top handhold...
Missus in charge of keeping the tackle sorted...

Works for me, YMMV...
You fellows read past the most important point here: short tether.
It's so short he has his lady do the heavy work. So he takes a pee, gets a modest thrill for both of 'em, prob never leaves a drip or two, feels way better, isn't by himself ... win win win.

Never into the wind.

Don isn't quite as white trashy as he claims if he never pees over the side.

I once saw a heavy, elderly woman pee off the backstay.
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Old 03-06-2013, 10:27   #278
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Re: Missing Boat found in Cuba: Lessons Learned

When I was at sea, I did my business inboard.
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Old 03-06-2013, 10:49   #279
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Re: Missing Boat found in Cuba: Lessons Learned

Best way is to do it in a jug (I use an old simply orange juice container) then pour over when convenient which might mean right then, an hour later, or when the darn thing is damn near full. This is the method of many campers, navy seals etc.........I think they prefer old gatorade jugs.

Also, as for jacklines and tethers, we had a good discussion about this on the jacklines thread. The old boys club on this forum did a good job explaining that you don't want to fall overboard in the first place. It was pointed out that a short tether was best since a jackline and tether usually means you end up in the water. Plus extreme caution must be taken when you are really tired if you have to go forward and reclip.

Physically I can do 7-8 pullups on a good day but still have trouble reentering my boat when it's still. Having seen the fitness of many sailors, it would be hard for me to believe one of them could recover from a fall overboard, snag onto a 100' dragline, pull themselves back to the boat, and then reenter. I think someones been watching to many action movies!
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Old 03-06-2013, 10:55   #280
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Re: Missing Boat found in Cuba: Lessons Learned

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Don isn't quite as white trashy as he claims if he never pees over the side.

Well I truly have never peed over the side, but you definitely should not judge me by this, even white trash have standards!
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Old 03-06-2013, 11:04   #281
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Re: Missing Boat found in Cuba: Lessons Learned

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Best way is to do it in a jug (I use an old simply orange juice container) then pour over when convenient which might mean right then, an hour later, or when the darn thing is damn near full. This is the method of many campers, navy seals etc.........I think they prefer old gatorade jugs.
Keep jugs well marked !
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Old 03-06-2013, 12:48   #282
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Re: Missing Boat found in Cuba: Lessons Learned

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Quote:
Originally Posted by fryewe
Makes more sense to clip onto a jackline than to tow a warp.

Andrew sez:
"Can anyone spell "false die-cotter-me" ?

I, for one, don't recall signing anything saying I had to pick only one of these options.

I think you must have a pretty low opinion of your fellow CF members if you would assume they would think a tripline was any sort of substitute for tethers and jacklines."


Andrew if you read what I wrote closely you will see that no dichotomy is presented. I simply stated that one alternative for staying onboard makes more sense to me than one alternative for getting back aboard if you fall overboard while underway.

You seem to have a bee in your bonnet over my post to the thread for some reason..."I don't recall signing anything"..."you must have a pretty low opinion of your fellow CF members"...

Hell...I'm not trying to tell you or anyone else what to do. And I don't generally have opinions of forum posters one way or the other - high or low - even when they get their hackles up about a perceived slight by another poster.

I hope most who read my post saw it as an attempt to point out that if one is on an underway boat relying on grabbing a towed line to save one's ass when one falls overboard then one better have one's wits about him and be ready to take immediate action and be able to swim pretty well through his own wake and perhaps a heaving sea. Or tow a warp length line that'll give more time because the line is longer and because it's sapping the boat's speed.

You obviously can do whatever you want to try to assure your safety and the safety of those who sail with you. I hope your actions do keep you safe.

And if you feel slighted by what I wrote in my previous post - tough sh#t. Reading comprehension is tough for some. And following Mark Twain's admonition is harder for others.

"Andrew if you read what I wrote closely you will see that no dichotomy is presented. I simply stated that one alternative for staying onboard makes more sense to me than one alternative for getting back aboard if you fall overboard while underway. "


Sorry, but you did. Maybe you didn't mean to, but you presented an "either/or" scenario, something no one here has espoused or recommended.
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Old 03-06-2013, 12:54   #283
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Re: Missing Boat found in Cuba: Lessons Learned

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I hope most who read my post saw it as an attempt to point out that if one is on an underway boat relying on grabbing a towed line to save one's ass when one falls overboard then one better have one's wits about him and be ready to take immediate action and be able to swim pretty well through his own wake and perhaps a heaving sea. Or tow a warp length line that'll give more time because the line is longer and because it's sapping the boat's speed.

You obviously can do whatever you want to try to assure your safety and the safety of those who sail with you. I hope your actions do keep you safe.

And if you feel slighted by what I wrote in my previous post - tough sh#t. Reading comprehension is tough for some. And following Mark Twain's admonition is harder for others.
What one can do in a swim suit and what one can do in boots and weather gear">foul weather gear are different matters... try the pull yourself back to boat at 5-7kts in foul weather gear and let us know what happened.
Same with your trial Raku... do it in full foul weather gear... or what you normally wear... get realistic...
have any of you folk ever actually tried swimming with foul weather gear and a PFD on... shoot I've seen folk struggle to move round the deck efficiently... let alone swim when 'Booted and Suited'...
Several years back when I first joined I copped for some mickey taking when I said my foul weather gear is a wetsuit and wind proof.
But I know one thing... I'll cut through that water a damn sight faster than the 'Style Guru's' in the designer foulies..
Theories are always wonderful and work perfect...
adding the realism strips off the rosy tint...[/QUOTE]


"What one can do in a swim suit and what one can do in boots and weather gear">foul weather gear are different matters... try the pull yourself back to boat at 5-7kts in foul weather gear and let us know what happened.
Same with your trial Raku... do it in full foul weather gear... or what you normally wear... get realistic..."


It's my life on the line. Why would I not be realistic? Oh yeah -- please tell me what I typically wear when sailing.

And ONCE AGAIN part of the purpose of a TRIP LINE is slow the boat by causing it to heave to. That (seriously) may be the 20th time I've said that. and AS I SAID BEFORE, on my previous boat, weight on the trip line caused the boat to heave to and stop dead in the water. So this 5 - 7 knots" thing is FICTIVE.

It is you spouting theory because you haven't tried any of this. I remind -- again -- that I have.

The only reason I need to test it is because now I have a wheel boat, not a tiller boat.
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Old 03-06-2013, 12:56   #284
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Re: Missing Boat found in Cuba: Lessons Learned

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I agree. Staying on deck is a must, Jack lines are the first line of defense, after that its a lot of luck!

I would amend that to jacklines that run down the center of the boat -- someone here actually mentioned attaching his tether to the life lines, a very bad idea in my opinion. In addition, the tether has to be short. Tethers can fail, and particularly in my case, I might go off when no one else would, and I believe in having a backup plan, but the way to stay alive (assuming the boat doesn't turtle with you trapped in the cabin) is to stay ON the boat.

I think we all acknowledge that.
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Old 03-06-2013, 13:00   #285
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Re: Missing Boat found in Cuba: Lessons Learned

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I was taught -- and believe more and more that it was right -- to regard the edge of a boat at sea like the edge of the roof of a 50 story building. Don't go off it. Just don't go off. That's Rule 1, Rule 2, and Rule 3. If you do, you're simply dead, unless you are incredibly lucky.

It means don't horse around at the edge of the deck, don't pee over the side unless it's very calm and you're holding on with the greatest of care, and don't leave the cockpit in rough weather. All this is much more important than clipping on or wearing PFD's, which I'm not arguing against -- just trying to put into perspective.

This is all an oversimplification, of course -- sometimes you do have to leave the cockpit in rough weather. If you absolutely can't avoid it, then clip on with a good short tether, and crawl.

I have a strobe and a PLB in my life jacket. But I don't wear my life jacket except in the dinghy, or in exceptionally rough weather (waves over 30 feet) where a knockdown is conceivable, in which case I wear the PFD and clip on in the cockpit, although Plan A, of course, is to simply avoid being out in such weather.

I would never trail a warp as there's no way in hell it could ever save me in 10 degrees C water. The risk is much greater that it will foul a prop and someone will die trying to clear it, than it could ever save me or anyone else. Boats and waters are different -- if you are on a 5 knot boat in 90 degrees F water, it could be different. If I fell off my boat barrelling along at 9 knots as she is wont to do, into 10C water, well -- all I can say is it will be a painless death. It hardly matters whether I'm alone or not, even, day or night, good or bad weather.


I feel really bad about poor Jay. We can say all we want about how good it is to die with your boots on, but he will have wanted to live. How ghastly to drown being dragged by your own tether.

I agree with everything except the temperature of the water. No matter how warm or cold the water, you have to get back on the boat if there's any way you can. If the warter is cold, it's all the more importent to get back on.

I have had to crawl to the bow on a very tender boat in rough water. As a result, my boat is netted. I would still use a short, centered tether because if the boat broaches even netted lifelines might not keep me on the boat.

I disagree about it not being a painful death, either. I think drowning in salt water would be torture. Fresh water wouldn't be much better.
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