Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 29-05-2015, 11:57   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: land in Sydney, boat in Canaries and soon to cross via Cape Verde Islands
Boat: Lagoon 400 S2
Posts: 68
Messing Up a Med Moor

I need advice on leaving a Med Moor. I have now messed it up twice and have wrapped the lazy line around my propellors twice. This takes a while to fix up and you are likely to need to replace part of the lazy line. Below are the details of the circumstances.

Imagine a Lagoon 400 catamaran. This is important because the propellors are right at the back. They are aft of the spade rudders and very vulnerable to picking up lines. We are in the Med so you don't need to worry about tides and mostly there is no problem with currents.

You have 2 of your mooring lines going to the fixed pier and looped once around cleats on the pier. They are ready to release. There are 2 lazy lines attached foreard to cleats on the front of each hull. Each lazy line starts at a mooring in the channel of the marina and has a tail leading to a cleat on the pier. These lines keep you off the pier. The breeze is on the nose pushing you back onto to the fixed pier. For the sake of the discussion say it is slightly on the port side.

What is the correct way to exit?

Thanks
Brian
__________________

__________________
b_rodwell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-05-2015, 12:37   #2
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: New York
Boat: LeComte NorthEast 38
Posts: 380
Re: Messing Up a Med Moor

is this helpful?
Med Mooring Made Easy | Cruising World
__________________

__________________
antoha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-05-2015, 12:57   #3
Eternal Member
 
monte's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Australia
Boat: Lagoon 400
Posts: 3,650
Images: 1
Re: Messing Up a Med Moor

Hi Brian and Lorraine! Nice to see you back out.
Yep leaving med moor can be a pain. Usually drop the lines in this order, assuming Brian at the helm, Lorraine releases the leeward stern line and pulls it on board, both engines in neutral. Lorraine walks forward and releases the leeward bow line while Brian releases the windward stern line and pulls it aboard. Lorraine calmly walks to the windward bowline and releases it. The boat should be moving foreword at this stage from the tension on the bowline after the stern line is released. Leeward lines should be well clear as they have had a chance to sink clear of the prop, so it's best to use the leeward engine if any is required.
Usually the thinner line closest to the dock is where the snags happen, so once you are a few meters off the dock the chance of wrapping it around the prop are much less.

Btw, what's the name of that red cleaning product you gave us? It's magic on stainless and stains on the deck!
__________________
monte is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-05-2015, 17:07   #4
Moderator
 
JPA Cate's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: aboard, cruising in Australia
Boat: Sayer 46' Solent rig sloop
Posts: 10,710
Re: Messing Up a Med Moor

Quote:
Originally Posted by monte View Post
Hi Brian and Lorraine! Nice to see you back out.
Yep leaving med moor can be a pain.

1. Usually drop the lines in this order, assuming Brian at the helm, Lorraine releases the leeward stern line and pulls it on board, both engines in neutral. 2. Lorraine walks forward and releases the leeward bow line bringing it aboard while Brian releases the windward stern line and pulls it aboard. Leeward engine in gear at idle
3. Lorraine calmly walks to the windward bowline and releases it bringing it aboard. The boat should be moving foreword at this stage from the tension on the bowline after the stern line is released. Leeward lines should be well clear as they have been brought aboard, or had a chance to sink clear of the prop, so it's best to use the leeward engine if any is required.

Usually the thinner line closest to the dock is where the snags happen, so once you are a few meters off the dock the chance of wrapping it around the prop are much less.

Btw, what's the name of that red cleaning product you gave us? It's magic on stainless and stains on the deck!
Monte, apologies for editing your post, but I'm hoping it expresses better what you meant....and should work.
__________________
Ann, with Jim, aboard US s/v Insatiable II, in Oz, very long term cruisers
JPA Cate is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 29-05-2015, 17:24   #5
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Nevada City. CA
Boat: Sceptre 41
Posts: 3,745
Images: 9
Re: Messing Up a Med Moor

1) Tighten up your bow lines so that you are pulled away from the land.

2) Remove leeward lines bow and stern.

3) Remove windward stern line

4) Wait -- Allow boat to pull forward.

5) Have bowline ready to release. prior to release give a small shot of forward then place engine in neutral I guess since you have two engines you can just put leeward engine in forward slowly.

6) Drop bow line and wait. Allow line to sink.

7) Motor out as turning as needed.

6)
__________________
Fair Winds,

Charlie

Between us there was, as I have already said somewhere, the bond of the sea. Besides holding our hearts together through long periods of separation, it had the effect of making us tolerant of each other's yarns -- and even convictions. Heart of Darkness
Joseph Conrad
Charlie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-05-2015, 20:59   #6
Elvish meaning 'Far-Wanderer'
 
Palarran's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Me - Michigan / Boat - Tenerife
Boat: 56' Fountaine Pajot Marquises
Posts: 2,641
Re: Messing Up a Med Moor

Personally, if your going to stay in the Med for long, I'd learn how to tie up bows in. It really is more enjoyable with your stern facing out towards the bay and much more private.

BTW, I don't do it as above. We always leave our stern lines tied to the quay and drop both lazy lines, then the leeward then windward stern lines. I can easily keep the boat off the quay and in position even with a very good beam wind using the engines. I want those lines on the ground before the boat moves over them.

There are probably 10 previous threads on this and one of them is excellent - I mean really detailed, on the practice, with catamarans.
__________________
Not all who wander are lost

http://www.sailblogs.com/member/palarran/
Palarran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-05-2015, 06:37   #7
Eternal Member
 
monte's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Australia
Boat: Lagoon 400
Posts: 3,650
Images: 1
Messing Up a Med Moor

Anne, the bow lines I mentioned are the lazy lines, also known as slime lines They are fixed at the mooring 20m in front of the bows to a concrete block and at the other end fixed to the dock. Usually the dock end is 1/2" line for about 10m, and the mooring end is 1" line for 50m. The lines are tied together at the ends. This gives the line enough slack to pick it up with a boat hook at the dock end, and bring it aboard to make off on the bow cleats. This is the slack that tends to let it find the props when the bow line is cast off, so they're not brought aboard as you suggested, but dropped alongside. The problem of wrapping it around the prop arises because the dock end line takes time to sink away from the props. Maybe more of an issue on cats, especially as Brian said, with props very close to the stern, as the line is dropped within 1m of the prop. Most monos the prop would be deeper and amidships.
__________________
monte is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-05-2015, 09:28   #8
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Rogoznica, Croatia
Boat: Bavaria Cruiser 40
Posts: 620
Images: 16
Re: Messing Up a Med Moor

My experience with lazy lines has been that the thin "slime line" end (attached to the pier/wall generally sinks well below any props or rudders so shouldn't catch on anything.

Once you have hauled up the actual mooring line and fastened it to your bow cleats you let the slime line drop back into the water to sink back whence it came. Given you are on a cat you don't have a deep keel to worry about snagging on any lines so when you do drop the mooring lines to leave it will only take a few seconds before you are completely clear.

Only time I have ever seen anyone snag a slime line was when they had draped said line over their guardrails and forgotten to drop it prior to leaving. All the other snaggings I've witness have been with stern lines being dragged through the water.

Keiron
__________________
kas_1611 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-05-2015, 09:31   #9
Registered User
 
Manos1955's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Thessalonki Greece
Boat: Westerly Centaur 26
Posts: 153
Send a message via Skype™ to Manos1955
Re: Messing Up a Med Moor

On the 46 fountain pajot cat at no wind or light wind conditions I do the following as I am moored on the dock
1- I engage bot engined fwd
2- I release the morning lines let them sink
3 - I engage both engines reverse
Let the cat settle on the dock both floats touching the dock with the fenders
4 - I release all shore lines last the weather line

5- I engage the engines fwd and I depart

I do not need help I do not kill my back and if
I do that before 09:00 in the morning there is no wind (summer)
__________________
Manos1955 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-05-2015, 10:25   #10
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Boat in Turkey, Beach cat in Israel
Boat: Lagoon 400 & Nacra 6.0 beach cat
Posts: 628
Re: Messing Up a Med Moor

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie View Post
1) Tighten up your bow lines so that you are pulled away from the land.

2) Remove leeward lines bow and stern.

3) Remove windward stern line

4) Wait -- Allow boat to pull forward.

5) Have bowline ready to release. prior to release give a small shot of forward then place engine in neutral I guess since you have two engines you can just put leeward engine in forward slowly.

6) Drop bow line and wait. Allow line to sink.

7) Motor out as turning as needed.

6)
ON A CAT: NO. 6 would be: while turning, watch out for the windward bow mooring line of the vessel on your leeward side as it might catch on your leeward prop.
__________________
Mark, S/Y Bat-Yam
meirriba is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-05-2015, 11:14   #11
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: UK, Croatia
Boat: Fountaine Pajot Athena 11.6m Rapa Nui II
Posts: 379
Re: Messing Up a Med Moor

I agree with Palerran, if we are stern to then release leeward and then windward lazy lines, touch ahead if you drift close to quay. Then release leleward shore line, you can hold the boat indefinitely on this one line and forward thrust. Then you can then tuck the stern up to windward with wheel hard to leeward ahead on leeward engine, release windward shore line apply windward engine power so that boat leaves straight but crabbing up to windward. Guess this works best with props forward of rudders.

I also agree about bows on being much more private, much easier in a cross wind and also easier shorthanded if there is nobody to take lines. The stepped sterns on our cat means we cannot easily connect shorelines, pick up lazylines unaided or get people ashore, but can from our plumb bows. Also less chance of snagging the lazylines or the lazyline leaders when they are tangled or too short which sometimes occurs. Again, we get the bow lines on and use engine to hold position so we can take our time getting first the windward lazyline and then leeward, obviously using the opposite engines if required.
__________________
Rapanui is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-05-2015, 11:19   #12
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: land in Sydney, boat in Canaries and soon to cross via Cape Verde Islands
Boat: Lagoon 400 S2
Posts: 68
Re: Messing Up a Med Moor

Thanks for all that. I now think I have enough information to do things differently.

Monte is correct in identifying that I have been snagging the smaller rope attached to the main slime line and attached to the dock.

I think I will try a composite of the suggestions made by you:

1. Engines going but in neutral
2. Drop the stern lines and bring them on board.
3. Drop the leeward slime line and check that all parts of it have sunk.
4. Pull the boat forward on the windward slime line and walk the line at least to midships. (This may be difficult in stronger winds) Drop this slime line and check that it has completely sunk. Use the leeward engine first and finally the windward engine.

Thank you very much
Brian
__________________
b_rodwell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-05-2015, 11:53   #13
Eternal Member
 
monte's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Australia
Boat: Lagoon 400
Posts: 3,650
Images: 1
Re: Messing Up a Med Moor

Brian the bow line will have too much tension to handle by hand so I wouldn't plan on pulling KI forward manually with it. The tension should pull you foreword slowly once the stern line is release so leave it made off till the tension is off it.
We usually only go bow to the dock if the dock is quite high, at least 1.5m as it's a bit easier to access with a plank. The foreword beam is around 1.8m off the water.
__________________
monte is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2015, 07:51   #14
Registered User
 
Xlantic's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Menorca
Boat: Grand Banks 50
Posts: 122
Re: Messing Up a Med Moor

Brian,a problem you may have had is that when mooring, the lazy lines were brought forward and are then unable to sink enough towards the back. This can happen because the much heavier mooring lines lying in the bottom keep the lighter lazy lines at an angle up to the seawall. Coupled with your cat configuration, this could be a big problem.

The way to avoid is to pull back some of the excess mooring line so the lazy line sinks vertically down just by the seawall, well aft of the props.

The correct way to reach and get a hold of the mooring line when docking is to "walk" the lazy line forward, allowing to sink vertically by the seawall.
__________________
Xlantic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2015, 09:01   #15
Elvish meaning 'Far-Wanderer'
 
Palarran's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Me - Michigan / Boat - Tenerife
Boat: 56' Fountaine Pajot Marquises
Posts: 2,641
Re: Messing Up a Med Moor

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rapanui View Post
I agree with Palerran, if we are stern to then release leeward and then windward lazy lines, touch ahead if you drift close to quay. Then release leleward shore line, you can hold the boat indefinitely on this one line and forward thrust. Then you can then tuck the stern up to windward with wheel hard to leeward ahead on leeward engine, release windward shore line apply windward engine power so that boat leaves straight but crabbing up to windward. Guess this works best with props forward of rudders.

I also agree about bows on being much more private, much easier in a cross wind and also easier shorthanded if there is nobody to take lines. The stepped sterns on our cat means we cannot easily connect shorelines, pick up lazylines unaided or get people ashore, but can from our plumb bows. Also less chance of snagging the lazylines or the lazyline leaders when they are tangled or too short which sometimes occurs. Again, we get the bow lines on and use engine to hold position so we can take our time getting first the windward lazyline and then leeward, obviously using the opposite engines if required.
To expand on this a little, it also helps to ease the stern lines before dropping the lazy lines. Typically we have about 3' of gap between the stern and quay because that's about how long our gangway board reaches. There is no reason why you can't increase that to 6' before dropping them.

Another reason why I typically wouldn't drop my stern lines before the lazy's is wind or current. If there's a lot of wind on the beam, you can easily make the bow's start an arc towards windward while dropping the remaining stern line which will get you about straight by the time your stern passes the neighbors bow. Otherwise I'd be all over the leeward boat.
__________________

__________________
Not all who wander are lost

http://www.sailblogs.com/member/palarran/
Palarran is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Is it my electronics or the SF Bay messing with me? gathem Marine Electronics 16 17-03-2015 15:45
Messing About SaltyBard The Library 0 17-04-2013 18:53
Birds messing my deck !!! BozSail Deck hardware: Rigging, Sails & Hoisting 15 18-09-2012 15:07
saw some friends in the park messing around with a kite sail rebel heart Deck hardware: Rigging, Sails & Hoisting 4 08-08-2012 22:34
Water pump messing with electrical....PLEASE HELP!! Amigo Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 14 05-11-2008 13:26



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 16:35.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.