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Old 10-10-2011, 21:47   #31
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Re: How to Raise the Main without the Engine ?

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Originally Posted by Bash View Post
Be wary of anyone with a Santa Cruz 50 who tells you such things.
Yeah. Because I lead nothing to the cockpit except the sheets I can jump the main all the way to the top. 55 feet. Sometimes the last foot needs the winch. Take only seconds. Sometimes a wagging runner snags things up. Pesky things on a hoist.
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Old 10-10-2011, 21:50   #32
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Re: How to Raise the Main without the Engine ?

Surprised so many people say they hoist a jib first to keep the boat head to wind. Seems to me this would have the opposite effect. I would tend to hoist the mizzen first, but then I have a ketch rig. And it's not an issue for me anyhow, as I have all power in-mast furling and only have to push the button on the main furler remote while cranking away on the main outhaul in the cockpit to deploy the main at any point of sail.
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Old 10-10-2011, 22:15   #33
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Re: How to Raise the Main without the Engine ?

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Surprised so many people say they hoist a jib first to keep the boat head to wind. Seems to me this would have the opposite effect. I would tend to hoist the mizzen first, but then I have a ketch rig. And it's not an issue for me anyhow, as I have all power in-mast furling and only have to push the button on the main furler remote while cranking away on the main outhaul in the cockpit to deploy the main at any point of sail.
Hoisting a jib is not going to get you or keep you head to wind. With most boats you will be able to sail on at least a close reach, if not close hauled under jib alone. This is close enough to the wind to raise the main, not to mention that the air flow off the jib will also help keep the main lined up and off the rigging.

Give it a try, I wonder if you can't sail close to the wind even if the jib's center of effort is farther forward due to being a ketch.

My boat with around 15 degrees of heel sails balanced under 150% genoa alone, no main.

John
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Old 11-10-2011, 01:36   #34
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Re: How to Raise the Main without the Engine ?

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Is useless for the OPs question.

It is pretty boat specific in some ways.

We went out on a 25 knot day to try it. Could not do it without what seemed sure damage to the main.

Maybe we will try it another day..........

Meanwhile - will mother the diesel a little.

Obviously I disagree with you about what is and is not useless.
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Old 11-10-2011, 05:39   #35
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Re: How to Raise the Main without the Engine ?

There is also this way, but it is conditional:

- sheet the boom to the lee - about 30 degs off center,
- start hoisting the main while you hold the lee lazyjacks close to the mast,
- once the sail is half up, let go the lee lazyjacks and play them evenly over the lee side of the main,
- continue hoisting (some winching may be necessary).

This works on smaller boats (ours is 26'), with full battens and with lazyjacks.

Actually though, if you can hoist half main up, the boat gets driven and you can luff and hoist the rest of the sail too.

In any case my fave method is as said above - first jib, go close to the wind, hoist the main, no big deal as our boat will sail close to the wind without wind/auto under jib only.

b.
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Old 11-10-2011, 07:29   #36
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Re: How to Raise the Main without the Engine ?

I heave to with just a tad of headsail, maybe 70-80%, with the tiller hard to leeward. As she oscillates on/off the wind I wait till she's swinging up and raise away... The BOW does NOT need to be pointed to windward, BUT the boom does. Keep the main sheet very free and the boom should want to swing dead downwind as the sail is raised...I do the reverse on take down..

I believe that Seraph does this so well because of two things-
1. she's a full keeler that loves to heave to
2. we have lots of canvas behind the mast acting to lever the bow up,
3. she has a roller reefer/furler headsail
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Old 11-10-2011, 09:03   #37
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Re: How to Raise the Main without the Engine ?

Oh Joy will fall off with just a headsail and will stall when coming head to wind with just a jib/genoa hoisted. Luckily, she's a yawl so this is no issue. Simply follow this procedure with split rigged boats. Start aft and work forward on hoist. Start forward and work aft on douse.
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Old 11-10-2011, 09:30   #38
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Re: How to Raise the Main without the Engine ?

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Oh Joy will fall off with just a headsail and will stall when coming head to wind with just a jib/genoa hoisted. Luckily, she's a yawl so this is no issue. Simply follow this procedure with split rigged boats. Start aft and work forward on hoist. Start forward and work aft on douse.


That's certainly how I was taught to do it.
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Old 11-10-2011, 09:32   #39
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Re: How to Raise the Main without the Engine ?

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Oh Joy will fall off with just a headsail and will stall when coming head to wind with just a jib/genoa hoisted. Luckily, she's a yawl so this is no issue. Simply follow this procedure with split rigged boats. Start aft and work forward on hoist. Start forward and work aft on douse.
I have a continuous line roller furler, and it can't be partially furled. What's more, my boat is tender. Put the headsail out and she not only falls off but takes off like snot.

All these ideas have to be tested on an individual's boat before counting on them. My boat loves so much to gallop away with only a little sail that I'm going to make sure my lunch hook is ready for easy use if conditions call for it (dead engine, failure of wheel pilot come to mind immediately).
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Old 11-10-2011, 09:36   #40
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Re: How to Raise the Main without the Engine ?

Sonrisa, here's what I used to do on my 28 footer with a tiller. This only works if you have no bimini in the way, or can lower (push aft) the bimini. I made a shock cord with brass clips that would reach (just) from the tiller straight up to the rear of the boom. I installed a padeye type hook at both tiller and boom underside to hook into. I would rig this, go forward and raise the mast (no other sail up). When the boom start to fall starboard due to the sail coming up and starting to fill, the shock cord would cause the tiller to move to starboard also, heading the boat back into the wind. The slight luff/fill of the sail was enough to keep slight weigh on while raising the main, yet not enough to hamper raising it without getting all caught up in stays/spreaders. worked like a charm, actually! I hope this explanation is enough for you to be able to make one of these bad boys for yourself, it really is cheap and easy and it works.
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Old 11-10-2011, 09:46   #41
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Re: How to Raise the Main without the Engine ?

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Sonrisa, here's what I used to do on my 28 footer with a tiller. This only works if you have no bimini in the way, or can lower (push aft) the bimini. I made a shock cord with brass clips that would reach (just) from the tiller straight up to the rear of the boom. I installed a padeye type hook at both tiller and boom underside to hook into. I would rig this, go forward and raise the mast (no other sail up). When the boom start to fall starboard due to the sail coming up and starting to fill, the shock cord would cause the tiller to move to starboard also, heading the boat back into the wind. The slight luff/fill of the sail was enough to keep slight weigh on while raising the main, yet not enough to hamper raising it without getting all caught up in stays/spreaders. worked like a charm, actually! I hope this explanation is enough for you to be able to make one of these bad boys for yourself, it really is cheap and easy and it works.

That is truly slick!
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Old 11-10-2011, 10:02   #42
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Re: How to Raise the Main without the Engine ?

My I suggest some reading material for the winter. Try a copy of Chapman Piloting.
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Old 11-10-2011, 17:40   #43
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Re: How to Raise the Main without the Engine ?

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This must be a common situation for the engineless single-hander. But maybe the englineless single-hander is not that common of a person

Thanks again for the replies - interesting stuff to consider.
Let's ask goprisko! He will know.
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Old 11-10-2011, 17:46   #44
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Re: How to Raise the Main without the Engine ?

raised in sailing on a very very old gaff rigged sloop on the hudson river, without an engine, of course, as the owner was a purist and tallshipman, we were told
always raise jib first and drop it last as it is your steering sail. the main is your driving sail.
funny how that still works. i watched a fella try to maneuver his cutter in a tight area sans foresail. lol didnt manage well. ran over his dinghy and almost hit someone else's boat. his goal was to try to pick up his mooring while under sail. he failed.
uncle phil was correct--always raise jib first and drop it last. raise main last and drop it first. maintain control of your boat.
uncle phil's boat will be 110 in 2013. uncle phil and boat were born same year--1903. she remains and always will remain , engineless.
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Old 13-10-2011, 10:23   #45
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Re: How to Raise the Main without the Engine ?

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Originally Posted by mjwarner View Post
Sonrisa, here's what I used to do on my 28 footer with a tiller. This only works if you have no bimini in the way, or can lower (push aft) the bimini. I made a shock cord with brass clips that would reach (just) from the tiller straight up to the rear of the boom. I installed a padeye type hook at both tiller and boom underside to hook into. I would rig this, go forward and raise the mast (no other sail up). When the boom start to fall starboard due to the sail coming up and starting to fill, the shock cord would cause the tiller to move to starboard also, heading the boat back into the wind. The slight luff/fill of the sail was enough to keep slight weigh on while raising the main, yet not enough to hamper raising it without getting all caught up in stays/spreaders. worked like a charm, actually! I hope this explanation is enough for you to be able to make one of these bad boys for yourself, it really is cheap and easy and it works.
I had a toy sailboat once that is exactly how it was rigged, it worked great on small scale. small adjustments to the string would give me great control over the heading.
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