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Old 08-01-2011, 12:36   #76
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...Because sh!t happens regardless of how well you heave, hove to, recovery is the key and the formals tell the truth.
formals don't tell jack*** because formals are based on "linear" models (mostly outdated and useless with modern designs), and rogues/beachers never come as singletons and always come in "non-linear" vectors. You still need to consider storm tactics, and the right ones for the conditions, locations and boat form.
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Old 08-01-2011, 13:08   #77
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Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post
As another armchair viewer.....

seems the big plus to a drogue is ease of deployment - from stern. and probably no need to turn the boat by then. and can be deployed as a late decision and (fairly) easy to adjust from cockpit. downside is that probably has a limit to wind force / wave size, plus need to have very stout cleats on the stern.

for the parachute the big downside is a need to deploy from bow and that vessel (needs?) to be headed into the waves to do that........and by the time the decision to deploy made then fannying around on the bow not so attractive. for same reason later adjustment not very conveniant. will also need stout cleats - but more likely to have those already or at least beefing up the existing arragements would serve dual purpose for anchoring. It appears though that the parachute has the edge in extreme conditions (if set right - and still attached!) by holding the vessel in station with the seas as well as any calming effect from a slick.

out of choice I would prefer to take seas on the bow.

whether any of the above is accurate or not is another thing - but it's my take on 'em............
Two with experience that I have read about set up the parachute long before it gets too bad on the bow. It is set up and wire-tied back to the cockpit where it is dropped over the side (in the correct order) if needed. These too need to have solid, dedicated anchor points like the Jordan recommends.
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Old 08-01-2011, 13:34   #78
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I have a frend how did sail from italy over to Malta in Desember som years ago, and did get a very bad weather, it was him and his wife onbord a 36f Contest. (they are sailors with 30000nm + under there belts
Afther had one Knockdown he took the anchor, and did all his fenders to it. let it go out, the fenders keeps the anchor afloat, and did let go around 30 meters off chain, then he had the rigth distanse to make this "Bundel" into a wavebreaker, he had no sails up. when lays to the waves like this, and they did feel safe. The "Bundel" made a corridor in the waves, where they did not break over the boat.
The boat stayed this way until weather came down again. 12 hrs.
they then took it all in and saild on to Malta .
Use what you have, use your head. think.
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Old 08-01-2011, 13:36   #79
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Originally Posted by SaltyMonkey View Post
formals don't tell jack*** because formals are based on "linear" models (mostly outdated and useless with modern designs), and rogues/beachers never come as singletons and always come in "non-linear" vectors. You still need to consider storm tactics, and the right ones for the conditions, locations and boat form.
This thread orignates with Lin and Larry Pardey's theories and practical knowledge of "Heavy Weather Sailing." There happens to be a long discussion on boat design on their video as Larry himself is a boat builder. To state that the design formulas have no value is just plain ignorance. Let's just say you do it your'n and I'll do it mine, that way this thread won't dissolve into meaningless spittle.
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Old 08-01-2011, 14:07   #80
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I will admit that I have not read all of that drogue testing stuff.
I will also admit that I have never been in 40 knots long enough for a sea to build.
If its a big storm the sea's will be building quite a while before the 40kts hits you and goes above.... you'll see the swell growing hourly...
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Old 08-01-2011, 14:18   #81
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If its a big storm the sea's will be building quite a while before the 40kts hits you and goes above.... you'll see the swell growing hourly...
Probably accurate in most cases, but not in mine. We experienced the wind before the swell became a threat. In fact, initially the prevailing swell was the NW groundswell while the wind rapidly built from the SE.
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Old 03-09-2012, 09:00   #82
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Re: Heaving-to

I have very limited experience. I recently was in 30-40 mph wind and 30 foot swells. I hove to with a reefed main and reefed jib. We stayed about 50-60 degrees of the wind and were stable. I actually slept for 8 hours while others stayed in the cockpit (too sea sick to want to go below). We drifted back about 20 miles in 10 hours by gps measurement the next day. We did not set a sea anchor.
Is there a correction you could recommend to not have as much drift?
Is there a way to change the direction of the drift in case you wanted to drift away from a shore?
Thanks for any comments.
RDW
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Old 03-09-2012, 09:17   #83
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Re: Heaving-to

is difficult to not drift with the current--most places have a prevailing current with which a boat being heaved to will ride. one must be aware of the speed of this current so as to make corrections in your course. is a deviant and an important factor to consider.
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Old 03-09-2012, 09:24   #84
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Re: Heaving-to

Quote:
Originally Posted by RDW View Post
I have very limited experience. I recently was in 30-40 mph wind and 30 foot swells. I hove to with a reefed main and reefed jib. We stayed about 50-60 degrees of the wind and were stable. I actually slept for 8 hours while others stayed in the cockpit (too sea sick to want to go below). We drifted back about 20 miles in 10 hours by gps measurement the next day. We did not set a sea anchor.
Is there a correction you could recommend to not have as much drift?
Is there a way to change the direction of the drift in case you wanted to drift away from a shore?
Thanks for any comments.
RDW
Sounds like you did ok. Most boats will forereach a little or slide off to leeward when hove to. In my experience, 1 to 2 knots is good.

You can experiment with different rudder angle and different sheeting. You can try reefing or unreefing the main. Every boat is different. They say that boats with modern keels heave to much worse than boats with old fashioned longer keels. My boat heaves to fine, despite her modern bulb keel. She settles right in without any fiddling, and does not forereach. Pretty much just like my old boat, which did have a long keel.
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Old 03-09-2012, 09:42   #85
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Re: Heaving-to

I agree you did well. When hove to you need to drift downwind. This creates a slick that tends to dissipate the wave energy and produce calmer sea upwind where the waves are coming from. This is one of the reasons the technique works well.

Fore reaching is bad because you are sailing out of this protective slick.
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