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Old 16-02-2009, 01:27   #1
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Anchors Aweigh

Evening men, I was wondering what the minimum anchor requirements would be for sailing the gulf coast of Florida to Central America. (Panama) Could you get by with 2 or 3 of the proper anchors to hold on rocks, sand, seaweed, and mud? Just need a little information for planning. Thanks --Bill--
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Old 16-02-2009, 02:13   #2
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Aloha Bill...Maybe a little more information on the type of boat you have...
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Old 16-02-2009, 04:51   #3
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you would need at least two anchors:

Good day Bill,

First, you would need at least two anchors:

- a main one on the bow
- a second one (dismountable) stored in the bilge, to be used as a storm anchor or in case you will loose the main one, or for some cases where two anchors are needed (Bahamian anchorage for example)

Now, I will suggest you to choose one of the New gen anchors as they are much more polyvalent than the old generation ones, mostly for sand, mud, and sea weed...

Rock is another story, and do not listen to people who will suggest antic anchor technologies such as the fisherman anchor... they are not better neither for rock nor for sea weed than anchors from the new gen .

Avoid common mistakes such as storing two anchors on the bow to have the look of a blue water sailor,... to have two different types of anchors, as they give good results in the same conditions and are useless also in the same sea grounds ( algae hard sand..).

You may also have a light aluminum anchor to be used as a lunch hook or with your dinghy (lateral anchor)

Safe anchoring

Joo
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Old 16-02-2009, 08:45   #4
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Never skimp or try to save on an anchor. With the past harrowing experience of dragging my hook once (And you know it happened in the middle of the night), I have vowed never to be caught in that situation again. I now have 3 different typs of anchors aboard, and am always on the lookout for more, can you really have too many anchors? I also use a kedge to increase my holding strenght(I think that's what they call it, a ten pound ball I slide down the anchor line and pull up about ten feet from the bottom). Anchors are relatively cheap, get a variety of types, each for their specific use, and make sure they are sized appropriately for the size of your boat.
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Old 16-02-2009, 09:27   #5
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For serious cruising I would always take three anchors. You should always have two and as pointed out by Joo there is always the possibility of losing an anchor which would leave you with one only if you started with two.

About 75% of the time I anchored with two anchors. Partly because a lot of my cruising was in the Bahamas with reversing tidal currents where two anchors are often necessary. But even in other situations I sleep a lot better with two anchors out, so another need to keep at least three on board.

Plus your third anchor can be an extra heavy storm anchor stored in the bilge for emergencies.
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Old 16-02-2009, 09:30   #6
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kellet Angel chum ...

Sorry Exocet!.. But where do you know that the efficiency of your ten pound ball will increase holding?

First this is not called a kedge , a kedge is something completely different, the thing you are talking about is known as a commercial product as Mobilest Anchor buddy and Conrad also sells one model. The technique is known as kellet , Angel , chum ,"sentinel", etc...

If using a manageable weight (ten pounds!) the efficiency is just a Psychological one the efficiency is easy to calculate using the catenary formula and mathematic theory (catenary formula) says that to increase holding, this kellet has to be located as close as possible to the shank of the anchor (not "ten feet from the bottom")...

My advise:- forget about this complicated and inefficient technique. Just launch 5 meters more of chain, (ten pounds is the weight of 2 meters of 10 mm chain) its as (or more) efficient and much easier...

Joo
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Old 16-02-2009, 10:17   #7
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Get yourself the best and biggest anchor you can manage. Have a second, preferably alumium, anchor that has high holding power, but is lightweight an easy to manage in the tender.
If you have not got diving gear available consider a third as a backup.
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Old 16-02-2009, 11:13   #8
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A question along the same lines. We have a Beneteau 50 (28,000 lbs) with a 44 lb CQR as the primary anchor, on about 125 feet of chain, with a windlass. We coastal cruise (NY, CT, RI, MA), anchoring mostly in sand a some mud. What's everyone's thoughts here, is 44 lbs a heavy enough anchor?

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Old 16-02-2009, 11:25   #9
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Quote:
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is 44 lbs a heavy enough anchor?
I have never sailed the areas you mention, but if you are sleeping or leaving the boat unattended, I think you anchor is way undersized.
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Old 16-02-2009, 11:44   #10
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Im fighting about this notion of anchor "WEIGHT"

If you want a Fisherman anchor good enough, you will need at least an 80 or 100 lbs one

Here below is the size suggestion for several models as found on the Net:

CQR 45 lbs - Length up to 58'
Bruce 50 lbs - Length up to 50'
Danforth 60 lbs
Delta 35 lbs
Rocna 73 lbs
Raya 48,5 lbs..


The only point is that some suggestion, like the one of the Danforth, is given for winds up to 30 knots; - when some others, like the Raya one is for winds up to 60 knots..

Why so much differences:
- 1 Anchor shape: some models are more efficient than others, the best results are given by "scoop" anchors, such as the Spade, the Rocna, the Supreme or the RAYA (all New Gen anchors).

-2 Surface area: Holding is not related to weight, but to the surface area of the blade: the biggest surface area, the best holding.
The Bruce has the worse ratio blade surface area / anchor weight and the best one is the one of the Raya anchor....

Joo

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Old 16-02-2009, 11:52   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bene505 View Post
A question along the same lines. We have a Beneteau 50 (28,000 lbs) with a 44 lb CQR as the primary anchor, on about 125 feet of chain, with a windlass. We coastal cruise (NY, CT, RI, MA), anchoring mostly in sand a some mud. What's everyone's thoughts here, is 44 lbs a heavy enough anchor?
I didn't know they had any sand or mud in that part of the country. I thought every thing was rock.

Regarding a 44 lb CQR for 50' Bene, I would call that the bare minimum. Probably just fine for reasonable weather and a protected anchorage with good holding bottom, but if the wind picked up or I was in a more open harbor or in an arae with marginal bottom I would not sleep with my boat depending on a single 44 lb CQR.
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Old 16-02-2009, 12:01   #12
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Its not so much the size of your anchor, but the chain that gives the holding power. You can have a very heavy anchor, but if you don't have a good heavy chain to lay on the bottom it will not hold. A smaller anchor will hold very well if you have enough chain on the bottom. So yes bigger is better, but its the scoop that gives you the holding power, and if your chain doesn't stay on the bottom no anchor will hold. The 10lb ball is a great idea and will be very effective as it helps keep that chain on the bottom. Your chain should be at least the length of your vessel and the heavier the better.

My 45lb danforth holds my 24,000lb boat in gail winds no problem. I also had no trouble in 3 days of hurricane force winds, but the mud was very sticky. Breaking it free was not so easy, had to use the rising tide.
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Old 16-02-2009, 12:34   #13
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Quote:
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Its not so much the size of your anchor, but the chain that gives the holding power.
Please? Do you have any proof of that?? Mathematical study, tests?

And if it is true for you... it would be URGENT for you to change your anchor!

We did test the holding power of a chain alone on sand: - approximately twice its weight, like a CQR anchor of 44lbs which will give 88lbs of holding... Just RIDICULOUS!!!..

Did you tests the holding of the same anchor with either an all chain rode and an all rope rode, as long as you have the same SCOPE! You will have the same holding...

With strong winds (more than 25/30 knots) and a reasonable scope, no chain will stay on the bottom, and the pulling angle will be NEARLY the same for an all rope rode.

Quote:
The 10lb ball is a great idea and will be very effective as it helps keep that chain on the bottom.


- the efficiency is just a Psychological one the efficiency is easy to calculate using the catenary formula and mathematic theory (catenary formula) says that to increase holding, this kellet has to be located as close as possible to the shank of the anchor...

My advise, forget about this complicated and inefficient technique. Just launch 5 meters more of chain, (ten pounds is the weight of 2 meters of 10 mm chain) its as (or more) efficient and much easier...

Joo
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Old 16-02-2009, 12:37   #14
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Quote:
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Its not so much the size of your anchor, but the chain that gives the holding power..
Well I don't think it is quite that simple. It is really a combination of many factors including weight (of the anchor and rode), angle of the pull on the anchor (which depends on scope, type of rode, catenary, depth, etc) surface area of the anchor flukes (thank you Joo), and anchor design.

Of all these factors I think the two most important are surface area and the angle of pull.

For example a 100 lb iron sphere will not have half the holding power of a 40 lb anchor. Also, a 100 lb anchor with a 1-1 scope will not hold as well as a 40 lb anchor with 7-1 scope.
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Old 16-02-2009, 12:46   #15
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The 10lb ball is a great idea and will be very effective as it helps keep that chain on the bottom.
Sorry to disagree, but the 10lb weight is equivalent to about
5m of 6mm (1/4) chain
3m of 8mm (5/16) chain
2m of 10mm (3/8) chain
1.3m of 13mm (1/2) chain.

If you add the 10lb to the anchor you gain about 300 square cm of fluke area, with a new generation anchor.
Add the weight at the anchor it is much more beneficial.
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