Advantages to have a small boat

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by Cadence

Jim,

That is surprising. What is the reason?

Well, as far as I know, village islanders have no use for alcohol (other than drinking), but many have gone over to LPG for cooking, at least i n the "big cities" where the supply ships come in occasionally. In many islands, the availability of firewood, the traditional cooking fuel, is becoming more difficult as populations expand and trees diminish. When we've seen alcohol for sale it has been in smallish plastic bottles at large cash prices!

Over the years, we've purchased LPG in Mexico, Rarotonga, Nukualofa, Neiafu, Suva, Lautoka, Port Vila, Papeete, Noumea and Honiara. We've seen it available in many other places as well. Sometimes one must buy a returnable bottle and do a gravity transfer to your own container... a PITA and often a bit wasteful, but doable.

We have never used alcohol for cooking, but have observed those few that do struggle to buy it in out of the way ports. To some degree, the same is true of kerosene... harder and harder to find, and more and more expensive. We do use kero for lamp fuel (in small quantities) so are somewhat aware of the supply issues!

Jim

[KISS]

Originally Posted by chrisss

Hi! I'm very new to sailing and i want to know are there any advantages to have a smaller boat than a bigger boat(bigger yachts cost more obviously), but is it easier to sail?Better to handle?

Small Boat Pros:

• less to maintain (matters even if $$$ no object)
• easier to sail short-handed
• more maneuverable in tight spaces
• can sail into shallower seas

Small Boat Cons:

• slower
• less space for solar
• less space for rain collection
• harder to stow dinghy (may have to use roll up)
• less seaworthy in extreme conditions
• less living space

All depends on your priorities.


For my plans (singlehand, liveaboard, blue water, minimalist), 35' is about right.

[Island Time O25]

My own personal view and a very general rule of thumb (may vary for particular situation or area and/or personal budget, etc):

1-2 primary crew, non liveaboards, coastal/local/seasonal sailing - 25-34ft
3-4 or more primary crew, rest same as above - 35-40ft
1-2 primary crew - cruising/liveaboard, some offshore, year round - 40-45ft
3-4 or more primary crew, rest same as above - 45-55ft
1-4 primary crew - extensive cruising, full time liveaboard, mostly/often offshore/RTW, etc. - 45-60ft.

IMO there is absolutely no practical reason, even if money is no object, to have a 40+ footer for occasional light day sails, local/coastal short trips etc. Not just waste of $$ but also very limiting as far as getting into marinas, gunkholing, etc. Now, if the object is to impress the neighbors, friends and whoever then of course it makes sense. Just as it is not practical to have a family of 4 cruising the world in a 33-35 footer. Doable but not practical or comfortable. I'm surprised that so many are stuck on general "safety" mantra and miss the practical everyday considerations of various sizes as applied to owners' different situations and different patterns of use.

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by Island Time O25

My own personal view and a very general rule of thumb (may vary for particular situation or area and/or personal budget, etc):

1-2 primary crew, non liveaboards, coastal/local/seasonal sailing - 25-34ft
3-4 or more primary crew, rest same as above - 35-40ft
1-2 primary crew - cruising/liveaboard, some offshore, year round - 40-45ft
3-4 or more primary crew, rest same as above - 45-55ft
1-4 primary crew - extensive cruising, full time liveaboard, mostly/often offshore/RTW, etc. - 45-60ft.

IMO there is absolutely no practical reason, even if money is no object, to have a 40+ footer for occasional light day sails, local/coastal short trips etc. Not just waste of $$ but also very limiting as far as getting into marinas, gunkholing, etc. Now, if the object is to impress the neighbors, friends and whoever then of course it makes sense. Just as it is not practical to have a family of 4 cruising the world in a 33-35 footer. Doable but not practical or comfortable. I'm surprised that so many are stuck on general "safety" mantra and miss the practical everyday considerations of various sizes as applied to owners' different situations and different patterns of use.

I have to chuckle a bit on this... in 1980 or thereabouts when the Sunburst Farms commune owned the 120 foot Gloucester Schooner "Star Pilot" in Santa Barbara they would occasionally take her for daysails off the mooring ball just outside the harbor. Sure was beautiful to watch. You need more than 4 folks to make her go though. (I see now she is still sailing back in New England and was renamed the "Highlander Sea.")

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Don C L

I have to chuckle a bit on this... in 1980 or thereabouts when the Sunburst Farms commune owned the 120 foot Gloucester Schooner "Star Pilot" in Santa Barbara they would occasionally take her for daysails off the mooring ball just outside the harbor. Sure was beautiful to watch. You need more than 4 folks to make her go though. (I see now she is still sailing back in New England and was renamed the "Highlander Sea.")

Island time made me actually laugh consider my boat has been to Hawaii 2 times and other ib 24's have circumnav'ed. And I'm not talkin about using the Panama canal.

[Island Time O25]

Originally Posted by newhaul

Island time made me actually laugh consider my boat has been to Hawaii 2 times and other ib 24's have circumnav'ed. And I'm not talkin about using the Panama canal.

You had crew of 3-4 going to Hawaii?

People once again are choosing to read into a post what they wish to read not what was written. One can drive cross country on a motorcycle sleeping in ditches. Does that make it a desirable mode of travel for 99.99% of the rest of us? Same with sailing a 24footer to Hawaii IMO.

BTW I am not in either camp but rather view this issue as very use and person specific. For some intended uses 50 footer may be barely large enough and for others 22 footer is plenty big. But there are still averages and "most likely" scenarios into which average user will fall into. And your average run of the mill cruiser does not go from Cali to Hawaii in a 24 foot boat. Doesn't mean such a boat can't make it or is inherently unsafe for such a passage but rather it means that most people would not be very comfortable sailing one on such a voyage. Just as most automobile drivers would not be comfortable on a motorcycle on I-95 in the middle of the winter storm in Maine.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Island Time O25

You had crew of 3-4 going to Hawaii?
.

Actually a crew of 2 pulling 6`s with sheet to tiller.

[donradcliffe]

Originally Posted by boat_alexandra

Why don't you explain why larger boats are safer?

Personal experience when the poop hits the fan. https://books.google.com/books?id=8S...20boat&f=false

I was on a Newport 41 in the 1982 Farallones doublehanded race. Even though the anemometer was frequently pegged at 60 knots, I was able to stay off a lee shore and get back into SF Bay. Six boats were abandoned, catamarans capsized, and a Moore 24 and a Ranger 22 lost with all hands. This all occurred within 25 miles of the coast.

I am not as familiar with the 1979 Fastnet, but I'm sure that most of the fatalities were on smaller boats.

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by Island Time O25

You had crew of 3-4 going to Hawaii?

People once again are choosing to read into a post what they wish to read not what was written. One can drive cross country on a motorcycle sleeping in ditches. Does that make it a desirable mode of travel for 99.99% of the rest of us? Same with sailing a 24footer to Hawaii IMO.

BTW I am not in either camp but rather view this issue as very use and person specific. For some intended uses 50 footer may be barely large enough and for others 22 footer is plenty big. But there are still averages and "most likely" scenarios into which average user will fall into. And your average run of the mill cruiser does not go from Cali to Hawaii in a 24 foot boat. Doesn't mean such a boat can't make it or is inherently unsafe for such a passage but rather it means that most people would not be very comfortable sailing one on such a voyage. Just as most automobile drivers would not be comfortable on a motorcycle on I-95 in the middle of the winter storm in Maine.

Actually, I tend to agree. I was just thinking that what to some may be small or large is always a matter of "compared to what?" If we had all grown up with clipper ships, sailing a little boat like a Gloucester schooner, with no engine, in and out of a harbor might seem like a piece of cake. Here's a clip just for fun... see how that 120' gets tossed around?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fP19...TzfLlI5IpdLWSh

[Larry Florida]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Cutter rigs good for windward work and when you need to reef down

I thought it was a cutter also. Seems pic 1 is a beautiful illusion.

[darylat8750]

If "small boat" is defined as still large enough to live on as apposed to only suitable for day sailing the primary advantages are $$$ or size/ strength of crew related.

On the smaller are more dangerous question I will not pontificate from my bar stool even though I have never crossed an ocean on a sail boat. Rather I will sit comfortably in my chair by the fireplace with a dram of Maker's Mark in my glass..... My opinion is derived from the reports of the Fastnet race. I recall that no boat over a certain length was rolled or if I remember correctly abandoned. I think that number was around 47 feet but the memory is not what it used to be and the bourbon is.... The reasons for the difference could be many. The larger boats were faster and simply missed the worst of the storm in the worst place to be caught. It may have been related to the size / shape of the waves related to the size of the boats. It may have been bad luck. Never the less, the smaller boats had a harder time than the bigger boats.

[Sandibar]

Originally Posted by Don C L

If we had all grown up with clipper ships, sailing a little boat like a Gloucester schooner, with no engine, in and out of a harbor might seem like a piece of cake. Here's a clip just for fun... see how that 120' gets tossed around?

OT, but Kipling's Captains Courageous was the book that hooked me on boats and sailing in the first place. Read it when I was around 12. Didn't know there was a movie.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by darylat8750

If "small boat" is defined as still large enough to live on as apposed to only suitable for day sailing the primary advantages are $$$ or size/ strength of crew related.

On the smaller are more dangerous question I will not pontificate from my bar stool even though I have never crossed an ocean on a sail boat. Rather I will sit comfortably in my chair by the fireplace with a dram of Maker's Mark in my glass..... My opinion is derived from the reports of the Fastnet race. I recall that no boat over a certain length was rolled or if I remember correctly abandoned. I think that number was around 47 feet but the memory is not what it used to be and the bourbon is.... The reasons for the difference could be many. The larger boats were faster and simply missed the worst of the storm in the worst place to be caught. It may have been related to the size / shape of the waves related to the size of the boats. It may have been bad luck. Never the less, the smaller boats had a harder time than the bigger boats.

This is where.. for me.. the argument falls down.
Folk are always throwing up Races as examples.. like race boats are something special and so are the competitors.. they are not.
Those built for purpose are deliberately lightly built and used by pro's for one or two events before being sold on to amateurs.. who are only special in that they can afford the expenses involved.. they're pop stars, businessmen etc.. part timers playing sailor in boats stripped down to lightest possible weight before becoming dangerous.
They push the envelope all the time and if anything will always reef later than sooner.. hey if anything breaks we've support boats to hand.
Its a totally different aspect to the cruiser who just wants to get there.. 2 days early or 2 weeks late makes no never mind.. I got there with nothing broken..

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Island Time O25

My own personal view and a very general rule of thumb (may vary for particular situation or area and/or personal budget, etc):

1-2 primary crew, non liveaboards, coastal/local/seasonal sailing - 25-34ft
3-4 or more primary crew, rest same as above - 35-40ft
1-2 primary crew - cruising/liveaboard, some offshore, year round - 40-45ft
3-4 or more primary crew, rest same as above - 45-55ft
1-4 primary crew - extensive cruising, full time liveaboard, mostly/often offshore/RTW, etc. - 45-60ft.

IMO there is absolutely no practical reason, even if money is no object, to have a 40+ footer for occasional light day sails, local/coastal short trips etc. Not just waste of $$ but also very limiting as far as getting into marinas, gunkholing, etc. Now, if the object is to impress the neighbors, friends and whoever then of course it makes sense. Just as it is not practical to have a family of 4 cruising the world in a 33-35 footer. Doable but not practical or comfortable. I'm surprised that so many are stuck on general "safety" mantra and miss the practical everyday considerations of various sizes as applied to owners' different situations and different patterns of use.

This is a very insightful post

I don't think anyone said that safety is the only consideration. But this is a nice parsing of the different tradeoffs of different sizes FOR DIFFERENT PURPOSES, which leaves aside only budget.

To this I would add one specific thing to tidal waters like the English Channel:

Large draft and fin keel will prevent you from exploring the fabulous tidal estuaries of this area. A smaller boat with bilge keels (or a lift keel) will open up whole worlds of creek-crawling and gunkholing, for areas like La Manche. One of the few times I feel boat envy, is when I see someone sailing by in a bilge keeler, up into some beautiful river which I can't get into even at high tide, knowing he is going to find a nice spot and let the tide go out and enjoy life while I stand off at anchor well away from the shoreline.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

This is a very insightful post

I don't think anyone said that safety is the only consideration. But this is a nice parsing of the different tradeoffs of different sizes FOR DIFFERENT PURPOSES, which leaves aside only budget.

To this I would add one specific thing to tidal waters like the English Channel:

Large draft and fin keel will prevent you from exploring the fabulous tidal estuaries of this area. A smaller boat with bilge keels (or a lift keel) will open up whole worlds of creek-crawling and gunkholing, for areas like La Manche. One of the few times I feel boat envy, is when I see someone sailing by in a bilge keeler, up into some beautiful river which I can't get into even at high tide, knowing he is going to find a nice spot and let the tide go out and enjoy life while I stand off at anchor well away from the shoreline.

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