Six Months on... Global Collapse Destinations?

[captain58sailin]

Originally Posted by unbusted67

Everyone who has any money to manage at all is very lucky and should be very thankful. There are a lot of people in the third world who don't worry about an economic collapse simply because they have no economy to begin with, they are constantly living in our worst nightmare (financially speaking). That's all, just a reminder. Be grateful for what you have.

I just got back from Belize where I met a gardner who worked 12 to 14 hours a day for the U.S. equivalent to $2.

[Christian Van H]

Sam, I have to tell you that I agree with everything you wrote with one exception. I believe the patriot would stay and attempt to fix whats wrong. We may differ, but we both love our Country...

[slomotion]

Originally Posted by Sam Plan B

The top 10% of all tax payers pay 60% of all Income Tax paid. That is what the IRS says and I believe them. If 1/3 of those tax payers moved off shore and took their wealth with them the IRS would face a revenue drop of 20%.

Well, the number is more like 70%. But the top 1% of taxpayers account for 40% of total tax revenue. The top 6-10% account for only 10% of the total. These numbers are only for individual tax returns:

The Tax Foundation - Summary of Latest Federal Individual Income Tax Data

[bobfnbw]

Mark, seriously, don't be fooled by ups in the market right now. There are significant problems in the worlds fininacials, and they are not know to all yet. Anyone putting money in the market right now is playing with fire. Not one stock is above the fray IMO.
But with that said, I did tell my wife to buy 100 shares of General Electric yesterday. At 10 per share seemed like a good move..... BUT I told her to sell microsoft when it was 60/ share and now its in the 20's and she did't listen to me so oh well.
I guess there is a chance right now to invest and make a killing... but everyone forgets how exactly this all works. We think in terms of buying a piece of them company and making money on them doing well. But that is not how it really works.
Once the IPO or initial public offering is sold, there is not much connection between public stock and the company. The stock could go up or down and have no bearing all on the company as a whole. It has to do with how people feel about the company, and its stock. And more people bringing in more money to buy shares. The stock could be a dog and do well, or a gold mine and do not so well... has little to do with the company overall. Look at some of the stocks out there now, even GE has a positive PE ratio. At this time. So when these experts say this is the time to buy yada yada yada.... perhaps they mean this is the time to buy now, so my shares will go up and I can now sell and get the heck out of this market.... because this market is crazy right now and would't take much to push it over the edge. Just imagine another 911, or Pakistan and India getting into a war, or North Korea invading South Korea and see what happens.

And as far as Sam and his plan B.... dude if your were going to do it you would have. Sounds like you like to talk about it.
Anyone that thinks going off to another country right now will help his/her situation is crazy imo. But do us a favor, go and let us know in a few years how it went.

Sure there are lot of problems with the US, and I for one would never say my country right wrong and the rest of that bs. But even with its MULTIPLES of problems, new and old, the US is still the best country to live in now, and for the foreseeable future.
Send us a postcard and just go already.

[anotherT34C]

Anyone who claims that they are going to take their marbles and go live behind a wall in some 3rd world police state is either bluffing or a fool. I say: "bye".

[MoonlightShadow]

I think Sam said he was coming to London. Well, we're not a 3rd World Police state yet T34...

But watch this space....

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by bobfnbw

Sure there are lot of problems with the US, and I for one would never say my country right wrong and the rest of that bs. But even with its MULTIPLES of problems, new and old, the US is still the best country to live in now, and for the foreseeable future.
Send us a postcard and just go already.

EXACTLY!!

That is why there are so many trying to get in every day.

[Hampus]

Originally Posted by bobfnbw

Sure there are lot of problems with the US, and I for one would never say my country right wrong and the rest of that bs. But even with its MULTIPLES of problems, new and old, the US is still the best country to live in now, and for the foreseeable future.
Send us a postcard and just go already.

I could say the same thing about Sweden, but since I havn't lived in every country on the planet, I wouldn't know what I was talking about. So I say nothing.

/Hampus

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by bobfnbw

But with that said, I did tell my wife to buy 100 shares of General Electric yesterday. .

Thank you

LOL


Mark

[bobfnbw]

Originally Posted by Hampus

I could say the same thing about Sweden, but since I havn't lived in every country on the planet, I wouldn't know what I was talking about. So I say nothing.

/Hampus

No offense hampus, but comparing sweden to the us is like comparing .... I'm not sure exactly. I wouldn't say Sweden is a bad country to live in, or Iceland, or Norway, or multitudes of other places.

But we in the US like to take a bit, No a lot of pride in that when the world gets into a shithole, the US is there to help out. And has the resources to do it. When somone wanted to go to the moon, only one country did it, of course at a hugh expense. Sure Sweden is probably a great place to live, good health care, mos tly a good economy, but you pay for that with almost no military expendutures. Sweden opts out when the rest of the world goes to war, prefering to sit it out.
Now I can't really say if that is admirable or imbicidal, to let others do the dying while Sweden sits by.
With a land area of not much more than California, and a population of slightly more than the greater Los Angeles area, Sweden is ripe for the pickings if the world goes into a tailspin. I'm sure Hitler would have taken you without a fight except GB, the US and the rest of the allies prevented that.
So when you insinuate that I might not know what I am talking about, maybe your right, but I think, having been in enough places to make a judgement, that I am fine right here.
The great thing about the US is that the diversity of its people, from all over the globe, makes it strong. Its not the the resources so much, or the land area, or the distance from enemies. But the people. Yes, even sweeds come here in the hope of something a lot better. And many, most usualy find it here.
But again, its just my opinion.

Bob

[anotherT34C]

Well... I think a substantial portion of Americans would prefer to exist in a state of armed neutrality, as Sweden does. Our sprawling economic interests make that all but impossible.

I think we in the US could probably stand to learn a few things from Sweden, like maybe how to combine loose labor markets with a substantial welfare net.

That's the great thing about a world full of different countries and states. Lots of experiments.

[Palarran]

Originally Posted by Hampus

I could say the same thing about Sweden, but since I havn't lived in every country on the planet, I wouldn't know what I was talking about. So I say nothing.

/Hampus

Bob, where did he insinuate you didn't know what you where talking about? I mean, come on, Sweden? Blonde hair, blue eyes. What's not to like about the place.

[Hampus]

Originally Posted by bobfnbw

No offense hampus, but comparing sweden to the us is like comparing ....

None taken, and I hope I didn't offend you either. I wasn't saying that one country or the other is better, I was merely remarking upon the fact that someone claimed to be living in the best place in the world without having lived in all the other places

As for our (swedish) politicians I agree that they, together with the rest of us, are mostly a spineless bunch that don't have the guts to choose sides. Regarding WWII, not even my parents were born at the time so I'm not responsible for any events that took place back then Still, I would have liked to see it handled differently.

There are things here I'd like to change, and things I wouldn't change for anything. There are lots of places I would like to live, at least for a while. There are good things about almost every country, as well as bad. I would have liked to try to live in the US 50 years ago, when things were calm, cars were still cars and music was still music. Now I think it's too dangerous, I've seen "Cops" on TV :P

One thing that amazes me and that I have reflected over many times before, on forums and in RL, and that has become clear in this thread is that all our cultural, political and economical differencies aside, cruisers and sailor seem to have a lot in common and be more alike than different. Much more so than the rest of the population. I find myself thinking about the cruising community as just that, a community rather than a bunch of people from different nations with a common interest. Funny thing really...

Fair Winds!

/Hampus

[bobfnbw]

Yeah, all true.
There are places in the US that I would not want to go, like Iraq only more dangerous...

The world is a crazy place. what should be peace and prosperity, and mutual cooperation, is and continues to be, a dog eat dog world. I am all for capitalism, and enriching onself thru your labors, but the bad things that come along with it, are like a cancer. People making obscene amounts of money while children starve, women spending fortunes on their face while basic vacines are denied to many.

Anyway, after a 12 hour shift I shouldn't post till I get some sleep, makes me grouchy.
Bob

Originally Posted by Hampus

There are things here I'd like to change, and things I wouldn't change for anything. There are lots of places I would like to live, at least for a while. There are good things about almost every country, as well as bad. I would have liked to try to live in the US 50 years ago, when things were calm, cars were still cars and music was still music. Now I think it's too dangerous, I've seen "Cops" on TV :P

One thing that amazes me and that I have reflected over many times before, on forums and in RL, and that has become clear in this thread is that all our cultural, political and economical differencies aside, cruisers and sailor seem to have a lot in common and be more alike than different. Much more so than the rest of the population. I find myself thinking about the cruising community as just that, a community rather than a bunch of people from different nations with a common interest. Funny thing really...

Fair Winds!

/Hampus

[s/v Jedi]

You know, I find this very interesting: what is the best country to live in? I detect very different opinions and reasoning behind them, so let's try to find out what's going on!

We've lived in many countries, 18 of them. We live there a while and next we haul anchor and sail to the next one. Both differences and similarities are amazing sometimes. But many locals we meet will tell you that their country is the best to live in. They are very proud of their country and easily offended by remarks like I read some in this thread. So let's not argue about our home countries here, it'll only lead to very annoyed people.

Also, there are lots of US citizens present on this board, just as proud of their country as all the others. But you must understand that your views of what's important are not automatically shared by others, just like it is the other way around. This is not about what's right and what's wrong, because there's two sides to everything. Some examples: you might say "you don't come help us fighting this war" while the other says "you're right we're not gonna help you kill people that far from your borders or secure your oil supply"; you might say "our economy is the biggest in the world" while the other says "but China and Japan have all your money"; you might say "we are free and democratic" while the other says "but we have free health care and education" etc. etc. Every statement is probably right (I just made some up but you get the idea) and they are always opposite sides of the same coin. We're all programmed according to the views of the society we live in.

We have Dutch passports but emigrated from Holland more than 6 years ago. We never immigrated anywhere so we are like gypsies or, as many call it: we have an offshore status. We prefer not to pay taxes for a society that's not ours anymore. One can argue that we have no home country at this moment. We feel like we're almost de-programmed and can't say that Holland is the best country to live in because we're not so sure anymore.

So, reasons for selecting "the best country to live in":

- family and friends live there?
- low taxes? (or high taxes?)
- thriving economy?
- friendly people?
- violence statistics?
- big country or small country?
- strong army?
- at war or at peace?
- standard of living?
- cost of living?
- targeted by terrorists?

Is that about it? Well, my view on those: Family and friends are nice to have around so that's always a point for the home country. Low taxes: off course so that rules out all modern western countries incl. our home countries. Thriving economy... don't care, I'm retired. Friendly people? sure. Violence stats: sure, less violence is better. Big country or small country: don't care, I don't need that much space. Strong army? well... yes, why not, but the question is why one would need that. War or peace: peace. standard of living: sure, high standard is nice for us spoiled cruisers. Cost of living: cheap. Targeted by terrorists: don't like that!

So, some of my preferences don't go together. Complicated stuff this is. It's easy to say I'd rather not live in a country that is at war but we really liked Virginia, New York, California and yes even Arizona and Utah although they are not bordered by the sea. hmmmm.... cost of living, as long as I could afford it, it shouldn't really matter. I'm stuck, help me out!

Ah!!! what we do now is what we prefer: move about, change the scenery! Country number 19: here we come!

ciao!
Nick.