Seasteading

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Don C L

Wow. Death penalty or life in prison.

This is a lot like the media going on about the US college admissions scandals and how people will go away for 40yr. I'd be shocked if they get 2yr at Club Fed.

Similarly, unless there is a lot more we don't know about, they aren't going to put them to death over this....hence the tinfoil hat donations.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

I think their point is that they weren’t in Thailand, and one would suppose to attempt what they were attempting that they weren’t in Thailand, cause if they were, then their attempt was doomed before it began.
That’s assuming I understand what they were attempting.

That's "their" point. Thailand's point is they did build it in Thailand. Guess who gets to make the rules?

Secondarily, how were they getting to and from this new "Country". My bet is they were just taking a boat to and from Thailand without checking in and out of Thailand, paying import/export duties, etc...

My bet is they ticked off someone...hence getting the big response but generally a bad idea for a country to give up control of their sovereign border area anyway.

[transmitterdan]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

but generally a bad idea for a country to give up control of their sovereign border area anyway.

https://gph.is/2oXqtz6

Terry,

You forgot to put a trigger warning in front of your post.

[a64pilot]

I’m still thinking Thailand became afraid of the precedent, that if they let this happen, something that they really didn’t want to happen might, something along the lines of the China building an island thing, doesn’t have to be China, just I know they have been doing that, and heavily militarizing the built islands.
One nut in a shack on a popsicle stick is pretty harmless, and yes I also assume they were trying for some kind of tax dodge

[mikedefieslife]

Seasteading has been done successfully. Take a look at Sealand just 6nm off the UK coast.

The UK's response wasn't as over the top as Thailand, but they did still put up a fight.

Presumably there are tiny little micro islands in various spots around the world you could seastead from, or perhaps even icebergs.

[letsgetsailing3]

Originally Posted by mikedefieslife

Seasteading has been done successfully. Take a look at Sealand just 6nm off the UK coast.

The UK's response wasn't as over the top as Thailand, but they did still put up a fight.

Presumably there are tiny little micro islands in various spots around the world you could seastead from, or perhaps even icebergs.

Is that what one would call "success"? More like the UK tolerates it, for now, and it's within UK territorial waters.


Other countries don't recognized the official documents from there, but they'll sell you a knighthood or piece of paper saying you're a Duke or Count.

[john61ct]

The Thai response had nothing to do with practicalities.

Just political grandstanding keeping up the jingoistic nationalism that is the norm across all segments of their political culture.

Or he refused to pay big enough bribes (blackmail) as other players became aware and wanted in on the action.

And yes from a practical POV this idea needs to be attempted in true international waters where no nation is making any claim.

[Chotu]

Finally watched all the YouTubes. This thing is fantastic!

They are using a large cylinder to displace enough water to hold the house part well above the water. This cylinder reaches quite deep to provide buoyancy but is weighted with ballast to keep things upright. Like floating a long tube with a rock in the bottom of the tube. House looks to be constructed as any modern yacht.

So they were anchored outside 12nm which really means they were more of a boat. They weren't attached to the bottom. Just anchored.

It's all in the semantics and grandstanding the guy was doing. He got too hype about all the political talk and that's what I'm guessing did him in.

If he kept a low profile and called it a new type of boat, he would have been happily living out there with his girlfriend.

Social media did him in.

[newhaul]

Likely end result of all this will be a big fine somewhere around half a million baht ( about 16,000 USD) and a deportation and banning from the country for him .
She will likely be granted asylum in the USA and all of the penalties levied on him will be also levied against her.

[mikedefieslife]

Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3

Is that what one would call "success"? More like the UK tolerates it, for now, and it's within UK territorial waters.


Other countries don't recognized the official documents from there, but they'll sell you a knighthood or piece of paper saying you're a Duke or Count.

Pretty much as good as it gets. They did win in the English courts, and fought off a take over. It was initially outside UK waters until the government decided to extend the countries territorial waters to cover Sealand.

Seasteading has nothing to do with creating official documents, you're probably confusing that with states. Though Taiwan and may other states don't have officially recognised documents either.

Artificial islands and structures regardless of where they are placed don't meet the criteria for statehood and have no territorial waters

[john61ct]

There is no universal "official" definition of nationhood.

Just gets closer to "real" with an increasing count of nations each granting recognition, also being granted increased participation at the UN.

From a practical POV comes down to big buck, you and what army. . .

Now, setting a goal of complete autonomy, being left alone to do whatever you like, that's much cheaper and easier to accomplish without publicly championing some idealistic cause counter to powerful interests.

[john61ct]

This guy was cute https://www.theguardian.com/lifeands...ss-emily-sudan

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by john61ct

There is no universal "official" definition of nationhood.

Just gets closer to "real" with an increasing count of nations each granting recognition, also being granted increased participation at the UN.

From a practical POV comes down to big buck, you and what army. . .

Now, setting a goal of complete autonomy, being left alone to do whatever you like, that's much cheaper and easier to accomplish without publicly championing some idealistic cause counter to powerful interests.

yep its called cruising

[letsgetsailing3]

Originally Posted by john61ct

There is no universal "official" definition of nationhood.

Just gets closer to "real" with an increasing count of nations each granting recognition, also being granted increased participation at the UN.

From a practical POV comes down to big buck, you and what army. . .

Now, setting a goal of complete autonomy, being left alone to do whatever you like, that's much cheaper and easier to accomplish without publicly championing some idealistic cause counter to powerful interests.

A commonly accepted definition of the state is the one given at the Montevideo Convention on Rights and Duties of States in 1933. It provides that "The state as a person of international law should possess the following qualifications: (a) a permanent population; (b) a defined territory; (c) government; and (d) capacity to enter into relations with the other states."

Further, the United Nations has some definitions, and understandings, that allow other states to militarily intervene to maintain international peace and security.

If a seastead is implemented in the territory of an established nation, then it will have to be done within the laws of that nation, which doesn't really make it a seastead, does it?

You're right, though, in that a big part of sovereignty is the recognition of your state.

[letsgetsailing3]

I can see where the idea is appealing, but would seem easier just to buy a cruising boat.

Having watched all their videos, I guess I get the point, even if it's obvious where the problem is going to be. To successfully seascape, you need at least tolerance from the nearby nation state.

Certainly, "the establishment" is always going to be trying to impose their will, telling you why freedoms should be diminished a little at a time, justifying why their control is more important than your freedom, and sending you the bills for their ideas. Part of freedom, however, is picking your battles. This one was lost before it began.