Looking for Advice on First Large Ship

[doug86]

Originally Posted by scoobert

i have given thought to sailing.
i dont like the healing. and i do not like the open cabin.
i am also one person, and many boats need more then 1 to handle them.

Originally Posted by scoobert

thats what i was thinking, was crossing at the coasts. safer in my opinion for bad weather as well.

Scoobert, I am getting the feeling that you feel a trawler will be somehow safer than a sailboat for crossing oceans. Not true. Trawlers are NOT safer or better suited for crossing oceans. They can sink just as fast as a sailboat. They roll and pitch in the waves. They are NOT more waterproof, or have inherently safer cabins, etc. It is true that I am dryer and warmer inside at my lower helm station than a sailor at the wheel of an aft cockpit sailboat, but warm and dry isn't the same as safe.

Very few trawlers in that size range can carry enough fuel to make a 2000 mile passage with 10% reserves. Small trawlers can be really uncomfortable in beam seas. Plus, can you imagine living for days on end with the engine noise?

Indeed, most of the 45' trawlers available for less than $150,000 are probably less capable of crossing oceans than a comparably priced 45' sailboat. The kind of trawler you're dreaming about (you mentioned Nordavns) is usually way more expensive than $150,000.

Your heart is in the right place, but why don't you do more research and study to learn what crossing oceans in small boats is really like before you make up your mind.

The suggestion that you buy a coastal cruiser first and get some miles under your keel was spot on. That Defever would be a great choice to cruise the Atlantic coast from Maine to Key West and the Bahamas. Or from Florida to Alaska via the Panama Canal. It will make a superb live aboard.

Best of luck in your search,

[scoobert]

i was thinking of the two boat approach as well. starting with the defever, going to a nordhaven ($400,000+). i can do south america as well with the defever?
can i make the hop to Antarctica? that is one of my short term goals.

as for engine noise, i sleep better to the sound of a diesel clattering away. i drive a diesel pickup now, and spend weeks at a time in it. if i shut it off i have a hard time sleeping.

for the beam seas i was thinking of the twin stabilizers that boat has.

yes, i have been in huge seas with my 25'.
8-10' seas. rocking so hard when i stopped, i nearly puked.
that was off marthas vineyard.

[doug86]

Originally Posted by scoobert

can i make the hop to Antarctica? that is one of my short term goals.

yes, i have been in huge seas with my 25'.
8-10' seas. rocking so hard when i stopped, i nearly puked.
that was off marthas vineyard.

In the same post, you mention a "hop" to Antarctica and your experience with huge seas of 8-10'.

With all due respect, 8-10'ers are not even close to huge seas. Huge seas are what you will find on your "hop" through the Drake Passage:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkPVwE8XQCs

[scoobert]

i was talking about relative size of the waves to the size of the boat.

[capn_billl]

I wish you luck. I once went down that road myself. There are people who regularly cross oceans on power, The Atlantic. I haven't heard of a Pacific crossing, the fuel would be a real shortcoming. I think you are seriously underestimating the fuel consumption. I often use 30-50% more than estimated. Heading seas, and steerage can add up more than you would think over long distances. I recently heard about a trawler that crossed the Atlantic in a convoy, (they had both active stabilizers and paravanes, but the active stabilizers malfunctioned leaving only the paravanes).

Finding good quality fuel in 3rd world countries can be a challenge, especially in the thousand gallon range you will require. Not saying it couldn't be done, I'm a power boat guy myself, but I went over to sailing because the ocean crossing ability is cheaper and easier to come by than with power.

For a circumnavigation the fuel will cost you more than a good sailboat that could do it easily.

[jkleins]

There are several Paciific crossings and many trawler circumnavigations. Look at the Nordhavn site and you can find the latest from Egret with a lot of good advice. There is also a trawler specific website I found on Google that had a list of all the known circumnavigators. One was on his third (one on a sailboat and two on his Nordhavn).

I have also looked at boats like this and it is hard to find those that have the proper configuration and fuel capacity. There are a group of customs built boats mostly steel that were built specifically for this and a few production yachts such as Nordhavn, Kadey Krogen, Selene, Bering that are built to do this sort of thing.

It seems that the shape of the bottom in many trawlers (fairly flat semi-planing) is a drawback for many. They are usually set up to go faster and therefore have bigger engines which use more fuel and are usually built to have more initial stability which in ocean waves can actually make the ride rougher. It seems many who do this like the displacement round bottom boats that roll easily and use stabilizers to keep them from doing that.

Don't be too discouraged by the folks that want you to switch to sail. It is more common to sail around the world and sounds very romantic but I think there is getting to be many examples (including cruising guru Steve Dashew) that are realizing that there are modern trawlers that can do this safely and efficiently. Many of the Nordhavn boats are getting 2-4 nm per gallon which comes out to less then a plane ticket for many long trips. If I was single handing I would go that route myself just because I would find handling the sails on deck to be less fun alone then keeping up all the mechanical systems.

Unfortunately my wife hates to have the engine running so it is sail for us. Works out much better with two though.

Jim

[jkleins]

Originally Posted by capn_billl

I wish you luck. I once went down that road myself. There are people who regularly cross oceans on power, The Atlantic. I haven't heard of a Pacific crossing, the fuel would be a real shortcoming. I think you are seriously underestimating the fuel consumption. I often use 30-50% more than estimated. Heading seas, and steerage can add up more than you would think over long distances. ...

This is a recent entry from the Egret logs. They had many long voyages and these are his statistics on a Nordhavn 46. This was after a trip from Ascension island to the Canaries. He was headed to Trinidad but changed his mind enroute and decided to go to the Med.

Distance from Ascension Island: 2392.0nm. This is the third longest non stop trip Egret has undertaken. The longest was from Fremantle, Western Australia to Mauritius in the Indian Ocean - 3365nm. The next longest was from La Gomera, Canary Islands to Salvador, Brazil - 2812nm.
Engine Hours: 389.0 16 days, 5 hours
Generator Hours: 8 (making water, laundry) Fuel Burn: We don't know exactly because we didn't leave with full tanks nor have exactly measured the jerry jugs or the single fuel bladder. Just guessing it would be the same as recent mileage, somewhere in the 3.14nm per U.S. Gallon range or .826nm/liter. Egret had 310 U.S. Gallons reserve on arrival (1178Ltrs) Average Speed from Ascension: 6.2 knots Distance from Fremantle: 10,821.5nm This will end Egret's total mileage for this long push. For the next few years, Egret's itinerary will be relatively short hops with no pre determined plans or schedule.
Average Speed from Fremantle: 6.1 knots

Here is the link to the logs: Voyage of Egret

It can definitely be done.

Jim

[doug86]

Originally Posted by jkleins

There are a group of customs built boats mostly steel that were built specifically for this and a few production yachts such as Nordhavn, Kadey Krogen, Selene, Bering that are built to do this sort of thing.

All good points Jim, but one would be hard pressed to find a 45-50' example of those brands in the $150,000 price range, which was where the OP was looking.

Can a person go around the world in a 45' trawler? Of course. But the original post solicited opinions as to doing that in a $150,000 45' Defever.

[jkleins]

Originally Posted by doug86

All good points Jim, but one would be hard pressed to find a 45-50' example of those brands in the $150,000 price range, which was where the OP was looking.

Can a person go around the world in a 45' trawler? Of course. But the original post solicited opinions as to doing that in a $150,000 45' Defever.

You wouldn't just be hard pressed it would almost be impossible. The OP didn't mention a price range so I assume he wanted advise not only on that boat, which would have inadequate tankage, but others that might fit his needs.

I haven't really found anything less then $250-300,000 range that would meet my needs at least. I would require a second "get home" engine or sail backup as well as a pretty reliable engine (Lugger, John Deere, etc). These seem to add to the cost. I can't figure out why.

Jim

[scoobert]

according to what i read, any boat can be fixed with an emergency sail.

[doug86]

Originally Posted by scoobert

so i have been looking at this boat:
48' DeFever will consider Real Estate, cash, small boat - eBay (item 220738232642 end time Feb-18-11 11:44:52 PST)

i wish i had the money for a 40' nordhaven. that would do it all.

Jim, you are right, he didn't mention a price range -- I inferred one based on the link from the first post, and then his post about what he couldn't afford....

[scoobert]

Originally Posted by scoobert

can you recommend an older motor sailor that would be under 160,000? that is my budget for the boat.

and this one

[doug86]

look at Schukers

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/197.../United-States

[jkleins]

Originally Posted by scoobert

according to what i read, any boat can be fixed with an emergency sail.

But not many will sail with it. You have to be able to go a few knots in the direction you want to go to be very useful. Some trawlers don't have the masts that would even make it feasible and if they do don't go to the trouble to fit a sail and rig it to be useful. Steve Dashew had a good discussion about this when designing his 64' boat. It seemed it was harder to get a sail built to proper shape to become useful then originally thought.

Jim

[jkleins]

Originally Posted by scoobert

and this one

Sorry I didn't see that post. I will join the group of naysayers now if those are really your hard criteria. But then I probably wouldn't sail around the world in a sailboat as cheap as many have done so I probably don't have much to add here.

Jim