Voting address vs permanent address

[Hudson Force]

Originally Posted by Schooner Chandlery

The Treasury Department is actually the one who wrote the rules that others like DHS follow regarding a physical address. It's all about whether law enforcement can locate you.
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This sounds reasonable, but in fact, there is no real expectation that any authority would be able to locate you by the listing of your residence or mailing address. The last time that I had a residence listed as a mailing address, voter's registration, IRS address, Driver's License address, or US Passport address that indicated my physical location was in 1977 when I was using a marina address where my boat was located. I have not made any effort to evade anyone, but I have been mobile and without any record of my physical location for about forty years. Unless you are incarcerated or bound to a location by a court order you are free to move about unannounced as you please. This freedom is not unique to the USA, but we certainly do not need to report our physical presence in any permanent location.

[hellosailor]

A passport address? Last time I looked, my passport had no address, it only shows my place of birth. Same on the Passport Card, which confuses the hell out of people who ask for an ID and were expecting a residential address to be on it.(G)

[Schooner Chandlery]

Originally Posted by Hudson Force

This sounds reasonable, but in fact, there is no real expectation that any authority would be able to locate you by the listing of your residence or mailing address. The last time that I had a residence listed as a mailing address, voter's registration, IRS address, Driver's License address, or US Passport address that indicated my physical location was in 1977 when I was using a marina address where my boat was located. I have not made any effort to evade anyone, but I have been mobile and without any record of my physical location for about forty years. Unless you are incarcerated or bound to a location by a court order you are free to move about unannounced as you please. This freedom is not unique to the USA, but we certainly do not need to report our physical presence in any permanent location.

If you have brokerage accounts, bank accounts, etc, you are required to show a physical address--using SBI in Green Cove Springs works for some people and for some people not--it depends on their banking companies. Technically, it's not OK for the post-9/11 requirements that I was talking about. I found that out in 2007-08 timeframe from a brokerage account. I took the time to research it back then and it is crazy, the treasury reg, because it's purpose is to make sure you're not a terrorist laundering money and somehow they made a list of rules about who would suffice to "prove" you weren't such and what sorts of addresses work.

You don't happen to be a FL resident do you? I have not dealt with this (yet) but I'm informed by several people who have FL driver licenses that upon renewal of the license (at least as of 2015) the SBI address cannot, alone, be used and one will either have to have a real physical address (not a PMB like SBI) for their license OR they will have to put their boat's Florida registration number on the license. If the boat is USCG documented but not FL registered, it will have to be FL registered to get license w/o a FL physical address of a person who will "vouch" for the person getting the license. Strange but true. A couple cruisers I know have been dealing with it in their own situation.

[Paul L]

Just got an email from American Express saying that my SBI address was not sufficient to meet fed rules, and that I now needed to supply an additional Street address.

[Hudson Force]

Hellosailor, You've taught me a quick lesson! I just tossed in my "passport address" without looking and noticing the absence of an address.

Schooner Chandlery, Yes, I am a long term Florida resident, since 1954, and never re-establishing a residence may result in my lack of bureaucratic problems with my lack of a street address. Some address restrictions were established well before Homeland Security. After Lee H. Oswald shot JFK with a mail ordered rifle sent to a post office box, individuals were not allowed to use a PO Box without an added street address.

Actually, when I last had a recorded physical street address in 1977 I kept my PO Box, which was on my Drivers License & posted on my personal checks, after leaving my marina that year. My "home port" has been in Clay County, Florida (the location of St. Brendan's Isle) since 1977 and this was long before St. Brendan's Isle mail service existed.

So, I'm probably not a good reference for establishing a successful lack of a physical address in Florida. I've probably been without problems because I've been banking at the same location and I've had the same employment (now retirement) for 43 years in the same community.

I may only pass through my "home" area only once or twice a year, but I've kept a presence.

[dwedeking2]

It should be noted that all of these requirements are to establish accounts. Once you set them up no one cares what happens after that. I keep a mailing address in Las Vegas and note that as my official residency though it is not where I'm physically located.

There is a service in South Dakota that specializes in people living the nomadic lifestyle. You go there, stay in the motel for one night, set up a mailing address and the receipt for the night stay is used as proof of residency to get a drivers license. A lot of gringos in Mexico use this as the DL and vehicle reg renewal is then done via the internet/mail.

So, for those thinking of casting off the ties of land based living, set up all your accounts first then switch to a mailing service.

[Schooner Chandlery]

Hudson Force- agree a lot has to do with establishing accounts but some does not. The NEW thing with the FL drivers licenses renewals is impacting ANYONE using SBI as their address. The state did make a special case for RVers and liveaboards/cruisers on boats so if the person has an RV or boat they can use their FL registration number on their license along with the SBI address. Overall that's a good thing but for people who have their boats documented with no state reg it means registering the boat in FL and paying up on that.


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[Hudson Force]

Schooner Chandlery. The "paying up on that" that comes with a Florida boat registration is not too much, - $135 annually for my 41' boat and no property tax assessment on vessels. Registration can be less than $10 annually for a vessel over thirty years old. There is a significant sales tax on the purchase of a vessel in Florida. I believe most, if not all, states have tax costs that are associated with state residency.

[Schooner Chandlery]

Originally Posted by Hudson Force

Schooner Chandlery. The "paying up on that" that comes with a Florida boat registration is not too much, - $135 annually for my 41' boat and no property tax assessment on vessels. Registration can be less than $10 annually for a vessel over thirty years old. There is a significant sales tax on the purchase of a vessel in Florida. I believe most, if not all, states have tax costs that are associated with state residency.

I was told (is it personal property tax?) there is a boat value related tax in Florida. No?

This matter of boat registration in FL doesn't impact me though we use SBI when we renew licenses we'll just provide my husband's sister's address for a land address if we need one. Our boat has never been to FL and if we take it there, at that time, we will have to register it in FL of course.

Since FL has been so weird about restricting boats anchoring there of late, I also would have some concern about the state of FL deciding that local boats (FL registered) can't anchor while cruising boats (not FL registered) can. That concerns me enough to think twice about registering a boat in FL right now. Whole 'nuther topic though...

[hellosailor]

IIRC the Florida "bargain" antique boat registration requires that the boat have the "original type" engine in it. So if you replaced a Perkins with a turbocharged Yanmar...I'm not sure if that's a deal breaker. Or, if the auxiliary engine even matters as long as you still have a Dacron primary engine.(G)


Man in Radio Shack asked me for my address a couple of years ago, while I was picking up bulbs for the boat instruments. I put on my sweetest face and looked around, slowly and appreciately, and said "I could stay here. This is a nice place. What's the address here?" and somehow, he managed to just skip the rest.(G)

[Schooner Chandlery]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

IIRC the Florida "bargain" antique boat registration requires that the boat have the "original type" engine in it. So if you replaced a Perkins with a turbocharged Yanmar...I'm not sure if that's a deal breaker. Or, if the auxiliary engine even matters as long as you still have a Dacron primary engine.(G)


Man in Radio Shack asked me for my address a couple of years ago, while I was picking up bulbs for the boat instruments. I put on my sweetest face and looked around, slowly and appreciately, and said "I could stay here. This is a nice place. What's the address here?" and somehow, he managed to just skip the rest.(G)

I wondered about that whole "original engine/power" bit (didn't realize it was "type") on the FL antique boat registration--as sailboats have sails as their power source.

[Hudson Force]

Originally Posted by Schooner Chandlery

I was told (is it personal property tax?) there is a boat value related tax in Florida. No? .............

There is no personal property tax on recreational vessels in Florida .

As far as the interpretation of the original propulsion engine; the rule applies to the mechanical engine as original or over thirty years old as the vessel. Some of the tax clerks interpret this differently in different counties and you are not required to register the vessel in the county of your residence. I pay the full registration for my 43 year old boat with it's 16 year old engine. I am not easily disappointed by taxes.

Despite the news, there is very little anchorage restriction in Florida. My information leads me to believe that there's more restricted anchorage by total area in the waters around San Diego than the entire State of Florida. In addition, there are huge areas of potential anchorage blocked in all states by simply widening the marked channel with the span placed between red and green markers to a width that is far beyond the need for piloting.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by dwedeking2

It should be noted that all of these requirements are to establish accounts. Once you set them up no one cares what happens after that. ..........

Nope. As I mentioned above American Express just sent me an email saying they would suspend my card that I've had for 20 years until I supplied a home address that was not a mailing service, aka St Brendens Isle. Been using SBI for over 5 years.

[denverd0n]

Originally Posted by Hudson Force

Some of the tax clerks interpret this differently in different counties...

Very much so. Which seems kind of absurd, but the law is written rather vaguely. Some basically say that if the boat originally came with a 30hp diesel auxiliary in it, and it still has a 30hp diesel in it now, then that is "the original type powerplant." Others will say that if it had a Yanmar and it now has a Westerbeke, then that is NOT "the original type powerplant." Others will say that it not only has to be the same manufacturer, but even the same model designation--that is, a Yanmar 3YM30 is NOT the same "type powerplant" as a Yanmar 3QM30. So it can pay to shop around.

What you can be pretty sure of is, if it originally came with a 30hp diesel and you decided to replace it with a 50hp diesel--none that I've heard of are going to accept that as "the original type powerplant." Same thing if it came with an Atomic gas engine, and you have swapped it out for a diesel. Or any other meaningful change like that.

Note too, that the antique registration only applies to vessels used for "non-commercial purposes." So if you are chartering your boat, or using it for any commercial purpose, you pay the full-price registration (which is still very reasonable--less than $200 per year for anything short of a mega-yacht).

And just to reiterate, as already mentioned, there is no personal property tax in Florida. You pay the 7% sales tax when you buy the boat, and the registration fee each year after that, but nothing else.

[dwedeking2]

Originally Posted by Paul L

Nope. As I mentioned above American Express just sent me an email saying they would suspend my card that I've had for 20 years until I supplied a home address that was not a mailing service, aka St Brendens Isle. Been using SBI for over 5 years.

Paul I should have been more clear in my post. I was looking at the issue through the lens of dealing with .gov regulations. Not looking at individual company policies.