Help estimating cost of European living estimates as live aboards.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

"...The downgrading of Greek government debt to junk bond status in April 2010 created alarm in financial markets, with bond yields rising so high, that private capital markets were practically no longer available for Greece as a funding source. On 2 May 2010, the Eurozone countries and the IMF agreed on a €110 billion bailout loan for Greece..."

"...The payment of the bailout was scheduled to happen in several disbursements from May 2010 until June 2013. Due to a worsened recession and the fact that Greece had worked slower than expected to comply with point 2 and 3 above, there was a need one year later to offer Greece both more time and money in the attempt to restore the economy. In October 2011, Eurozone leaders consequently agreed to offer a second €130 billion bailout loan for Greece, ..."

I am afraid as long as masses do not understand what they can read, there is no further need to write anything.

Hard to say whether it is because people cannot understand what they are reading or rather because they do not want to hear what is being told.

And Greece is not the only Mediterranean country with a problem. Cruisers will be affected unless their (mostly German) governments buy them another year or two of time (meanwhile re-structuring their own assets to immunize before a major EUR zone financial and political disaster).

b.

oh sorry this is just nonsense and shows no understand of money supply and fiat currencies. The Euro is a paper fiat currency just like the dollar. You can't go bankrupt. The only way a Eurozone country goes 'bankrupt' , which is a nonsensical word for countries, is that the ECB refuses to authorise lending. Its ourselves bankrupting ourselves. Thats why it actually hasn't happened and never will.

People treat money like we were still on the gold standard. jeepers.

Already data shows core eurozone countries coming out of recession, Spain has secued an agreement that bank debt will not be sovereign debt, Ireland will exit the bailout this year, etc etc

You'd think some people want the EU to fail!!!.

ps you might see where the IMF gets most of its money and virtually all its control , theres a reason its always headed by a European.

so for IMF , read ECB in disguise

I am afraid as long as masses do not understand what they can read, there is no further need to write anything.

most people treat monetary policy like domestic budgeting, I earn x and I spend Y. Unfortunately , you house doesnt own a money printing press. Deficit spending has been around since Bretton woods, in itself it means little , once confidence in the currency and the world market in it remains. The US is a spectacular example of this , a huge deficit , in fact its deficit is bigger then greece.

So simply in itself , once there is a giant economic area and its fiat currency behind you, You will have lots of been brought around the back of the school by the germans and given a stern talking to, but you'll never get expelled.


The macro economic climate will not materially affect people cruising, except that in some places a fall off in demand has brought some infrastructure prices down. ( but the Russians are buying it all up anyway).

The med countries might also finally realise that they actually to collect tax from everybody and now start doing so. Thats good to.


Dave

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

oh sorry this is just nonsense and shows no understand of money supply and fiat currencies (...) Dave

oh David so it looks like it is my opinion vs. your opinion and we must live some and see

and it may well be a nonsense but is donating EUR 240 billion to to a EUR 240 billion GDP nation of only 11 million inhabitants (donation of EUR 22k per capita) not the bigger nonsense (?)

my point is all the real and the imagined nonsense will impact cruisers in the Med

b.

[Invictus69]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

oh sorry this is just nonsense and shows no understand of money supply and fiat currencies. The Euro is a paper fiat currency just like the dollar. You can't go bankrupt. The only way a Eurozone country goes 'bankrupt' , which is a nonsensical word for countries, is that the ECB refuses to authorise lending. Its ourselves bankrupting ourselves. Thats why it actually hasn't happened and never will.

That's correct. Zimbabwe never went bankrupt as well. They just kept printing Z$'s...

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

People treat money like we were still on the gold standard. jeepers.

Already data shows core eurozone countries coming out of recession, Spain has secued an agreement that bank debt will not be sovereign debt, Ireland will exit the bailout this year, etc etc

Data produced by who? EU Statistics Bureau? The same guys that said that Greece meets all criteria to joint the Euro?

Again, Zimbabwe had a big growth in nominal terms as well....They even "successfully" nationalized a big chunk of privately owned enterprises.

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

You'd think some people want the EU to fail!!!.

Yes, EU will fail in the same way that all artificial and centrally controlled entities (USSR, Yugoslavia, etc) failed.

It is a matter of time and style/magnitude of the end game.

I have always assumed that sailors love freedom and will despise these centralized bureaucratic creations. That's why I am bit surprised about your mainstream media fed position about this failed experiment.

But that is not the reason not to enojoy the natural beauties of the Mediterranean Sea!

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by Invictus69

The overregulated and corrupt welfare state concept based on government spending doesn't work - period.

The main problem that Greece faced was not collecting the taxes owed - by the rich (the folks who control the govts, theirs, yours and mine).....in our version of democracy the rich write the tax rules that allow them to legally pay as little as possible - the Greeks just omitted that nicety , hence it being called corruption - our own is legal so it's not called by that name. same thing though.........it has nothing to do with whether Govt spent the money it raised (or theoretically should have raised!) on a Welfare State or on an Armed Forces 3 times the size of Sanity

Running a country is an expensive business - and is only sustainable if everyone is pulling together in the same direction, and for that need a common cause and ties to each other. Time will tell if extending that idea into a larger group with differing interests is sustainable - but early days on that, for both EU............and USA.

But I'm an optimist on the EU, and IMO worth a go considering it is cheaper than fighting WWIII. (folks who started TWO world wars don't become all peaceful by nature overnight )......in any event, as GBN says - it's only money. As real as Monopoly money or US Dollars........once your economic grouping is big enough can do pretty much WTF you want and the rest of the world gets to suck it up .

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Invictus69

That's correct. Zimbabwe never went bankrupt as well. They just kept printing Z$'s...

Data produced by who? EU Statistics Bureau? The same guys that said that Greece meets all criteria to joint the Euro?

Again, Zimbabwe had a big growth in nominal terms as well....They even "successfully" nationalized a big chunk of privately owned enterprises.

Yes, EU will fail in the same way that all artificial and centrally controlled entities (USSR, Yugoslavia, etc) failed.

It is a matter of time and style/magnitude of the end game.

I have always assumed that sailors love freedom and will despise these centralized bureaucratic creations. That's why I am bit surprised about your mainstream media fed position about this failed experiment.

But that is not the reason not to enojoy the natural beauties of the Mediterranean Sea!

Your arguments would suggest the US is like Zimbabwe. To suggest the EU will fail is to suggest the US will fail , neither will fail anytime soon . Neither did the uSSR or Yugoslavia fail because of money

Your politics are showing , the EU is less centralised then the US.

Dave

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Your politics are showing , the EU is less centralised then the US.

Dave

The EU should really be called the EC (The European Confederacy ).

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey

The EU should really be called the EC (The European Confederacy ).

Not bad , maybe the EU flag could have a nice Red Cross thingy added.

Anyway within 10 years the Eurozone will be almost identical to the US fiscally and regards monetary policy and control.

Dave

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Not bad , maybe the EU flag could have a nice Red Cross thingy added.

Anyway within 10 years the Eurozone will be almost identical to the US fiscally and regards monetary policy and control.

Dave

The Eurozone (aka Greater Germany - complete with the ReichEuro ).....you are probably right, and that probably no bad thing........at least until I am long gone. of course could also go very badly, but I suspect that 3rd time lucky Jerry has learnt that yer catch more flys with Euros than with Panzers .

And I write that as a supporter of both the EU and the Euro - my comfort is that at least the Germans have a plan.......rather than the muddling through approach favoured by our beloved leaders.

Of course I also wish we had done a deal with that nice Mr Hitler, so perhaps I don't qualify as a UKIP member .

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey

The Eurozone (aka Greater Germany - complete with the ReichEuro ).....you are probably right, and that probably no bad thing........at least until I am long gone. of course could also go very badly, but I suspect that 3rd time lucky Jerry has learnt that yer catch more flys with Euros than with Panzers .

And I write that as a supporter of both the EU and the Euro - my comfort is that at least the Germans have a plan.......rather than the muddling through approach favoured by our beloved leaders.

Of course I also wish we had done a deal with that nice Mr Hitler, so perhaps I don't qualify as a UKIP member .

Yes but what will we do with the UK, its like the boy at the back , that's needs its own Teaching Assistant !!!

Dave

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Yes but what will we do with the UK, its like the boy at the back , that's needs its own Teaching Assistant !!!

Dave

In 30 years the UK will only consist of England and Wales........and likely Wales will on the way out (Taffy has always been a bit slow ) ......at that point a fair chance that the regions will already be looking at London and realise that they don't actually get enough from being the hinterland of a city state, and that intentionally so......Mercia and Wessex next?

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey

In 30 years the UK will only consist of England and Wales........and likely Wales will on the way out (Taffy has always been a bit slow ) ......at that point a fair chance that the regions will already be looking at London and realise that they don't actually get enough from being the hinterland of a city state, and that intentionally so......Mercia and Wessex next?

Essex as a statelet ..,,shudder

Dave

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Essex as a statelet ..,,shudder

Dave

It's the only way.............

[Invictus69]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Your arguments would suggest the US is like Zimbabwe. To suggest the EU will fail is to suggest the US will fail , neither will fail anytime soon . Neither did the uSSR or Yugoslavia fail because of money

Your politics are showing , the EU is less centralised then the US.

Dave

Far from it, although the fact that both expect to solve the problems by money printing makes them similar.

In relation to Yugoslavia, money printing and hyperinflation played a major role in the political developments that led to the collapse of the country.

Don't want to mention what were the follow-up events after the Weimar hyper-inflation. I am not suggesting these type of consequences, just want to illustrate that money printing does not solve problems and will never do.

In relation to the EU, we need to see who will be the first guys out (my bet is on UK) and then it becomes interesting.

EU is maybe less centralized now, but both are going in the direction of more centralization (which means less checks and balances and less accountability)

I hope you are right and I am wrong. Only time will tell.
I am sure all of us will still be be alive to see some of these historical events happening. And hopefully observing them from a nice boat on a far away sea.

(I had to end in sailor's style)



Cheers!

[Seadog54]

Dear Monte I wrote some time ago about how you care and keep Balrog on board. As we are wanting to get a dog I wondered about the practicalities of a sailing life with a large dog? (The administration for a pet, I already know is more documentation than the boat?!) Have you changed your e-mail and you're location which the Forum gives as Australia? Chris & Catharine

[monte]

Hi Chris, no I did receive your mail and replied, I'll recheck and resend if you haven;t received it, FWI he is no problem on board, we just have a pet passport and keep his shots up to date, so its just a yearly trip to the vet. Currently we are in Croatia. Balrog does his business on the trampoline net and (most of) it falls straight through. A few jumps takes care of the rest
He occasionally gets a little bit seasick if its rough, but he handles it well, looks for a quiet place to relax with fresh air, tries to keep his focus on the horizon or watches the dolphins..