Do You Get Flack for Being 'House-less' ?

[wolfenzee]

With the exception of the people that feel no one should be allowed to live aboard a boat, mainly because I "get away without paying property tax" (I do pay 12.5% tax on my slip rental and live aboard fees), most people think it is "really kewl....at worst it is like an "elite trailer/RV park". Personally, since I have moved on my boat my life has settled into a stability it never had.

[S/V Alchemy]

Originally Posted by Doodles

I'm not all that concerned about what others think in this regard either, but if you live in the real world you have to deal with this and its not so easy for some. To view those that struggle with it as "unsuited" in some way is a pretty narrow view in itself. IMHO

I believe that the greatest challenge of sailing is not the level of skills, because these can be learned and refined with practice, but are based in attitude and character. The most successful long-term sailors of my experience have uniformly possessed courtesy and a pretty low-key attitude to situations, like storms or dragging anchors, etc., while at the same time appearing to have a studied indifference to most land-based critics.

The view may seem narrow because so very few people are temperamentally suited to selling up and pushing off in the first place. Many either have a foot in both camps, by sailing near home for short periods, and there's nothing wrong with that, but only a small subset of ocean-capable boat owners actually are house-less, full-time liveaboards. That's a commitment to a sea gypsy life without the usual material comforts, nor the ability to walk away. Panama, Florida and Washington and B.C. are stuffed with equipped-to-cruise boats going for a fraction of their worth because these qualities were absent and marriages foundered. You have to be "different" and at least somewhat resistant to the snarky and/or jealous comments of others to even contemplate becoming a liveaboard, which is perceived by the landed as a drop in social status to "hobo afloat", but in actuality is a switch to a new society, the society of cruising, with values that are parallel but in some cases quite different to those still ashore.

So if you want to be happy choosing cruising, it helps, I think, to have a tin ear to those who would, from good intentions or malign, attempt to persuade you otherwise. If you cannot exercise the sort of emotional autonomy to run a boat, where there is no 911 and no salvation save what you and your crew can bring to bear, I maintain the cruising life may not be for you, because you are unsuited to it. Here's a Viking helmet to show I'm serious:

(Did I mention that most liveaboards have senses of humour, usually discovered hanging upside down in a cross-sea with 30 knots of wind, trying to find a gasket dropped into a bilge the colour of the inside of a whale? Please note they have likely paid a quarter of a million dollars for the privilege of hanging upside-down...)

[S/V Alchemy]

Originally Posted by wolfenzee

Personally, since I have moved on my boat my life has settled into a stability it never had.

That's possibly because you are more intimately connected with the movement of sun and wind and water, and because onboard life tends to have a certain routine related to maintenance and the fact that some things, like laundry, grocery acquisition and even going for a walk must be planned for in advance and may take a lot more time to complete.

[Doodles]

Originally Posted by S/V Alchemy

Please note they have likely paid a quarter of a million dollars for the privilege of hanging upside-down...)

I'm traveling in the wrong liveaboard circle. This must be boatman61's crowd.

[S/V Alchemy]

If you can do it for a quarter of that price, you're probably very experienced indeed, and more power to you.

[lorenzo b]

I do feel that a lot of the criticism liveaboards get is to some extent deserved. A large percentage of liveaboards have moved onto their boats to escape obligations they would face if they owned a home or had a permanent address. If you go to the Sarasota public anchorage or Marathon or indeed anywhere along the Florida coast you will see whole communities of trashed out boats loaded with folks living at well below the poverty level. Now consider that real estate property along our shorelines is some of the most expensive in any given community and that those that can afford to live there do not want to look out on trash. They also pay some of the highest property taxes and as such have a voice.
Please understand that I have spent decades working as a volunteer with the homeless community in SF and like, respect, and enjoy they're lifestyle choices and how they address the difficult challenges they face in life. They are some of the most interesting, warm, and entertaining people I have ever met.
I think one has to look at both sides of this.
It is also good to remember that our assumed rights to access navigable waterways and anchor wherever we please are a hangover from the days when waterways were the principle means of commerce and that these laws were passed to protect wealthy merchants from paying levies or taxes to local communities. That is to say, help the rich get richer, no surprise there. Now the wealth has shifted to real estate values on land and homes along our beautiful waterways, and of course the rich will be heard.
To say you have the right to anchor wherever you please makes no more sense than allowing people the plop down trailers and build camps or even pitch a tent without a permit in our National Forests or Wildlife areas.

[S/V Alchemy]

I guess I should make clear that I am distinguishing between those liveaboards who move and those who are more or less permanently moored in a floating barge-like object.

I would probably object to those who "played the system" by cycling through local anchorages simply to get a lower cost of living, and on a boat that from a safety standpoint reflected that lower cost.

On the other hand, a rapid cycling of visiting cruisers can enhance many communities simply as a source of transient income. It's not like taxes are being avoided, but rather a case that if cruisers didn't visit, such places might have no business from their waterfronts whatsoever.

[Doodles]

Originally Posted by S/V Alchemy

If you can do it for a quarter of that price, you're probably very experienced indeed, and more power to you.

Not that much experienced ... just my pockets aren't that deep.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Doodles

I'm traveling in the wrong liveaboard circle. This must be boatman61's crowd.

Doodles... are you referring to my Avatar... or my 'trying to pop my sacroiliac back in' picture....

[wolfenzee]

The life style our culture expects us to lead can not only never be achieved it can not even be defined. The life style I lead is of my own choosing. We live in a sociologically constricted, emotionally constipated cultural bubble with expectations of grandeur (ie people spend money they don't have to buy things the don't need and/or are told they do to make it look like they do.

[zeehag]

lol...i was given flack for a while until i showed the pretty pix of my boat----not the real ones--the PRETTY ones from before last owner bought her...LOL...she isnt as shiny as she used to be before he abandoned her..... but she is fine. i dont have to hang upside down for any of my repairs--except the packing gland...then is kneeling and looking at it from a bit of an angle...and i only paid 10k for this privilege...plus 2500 for engine replacement and a few other dollars for other stuff necessary to keep oil and fuel inside the proper places and such......
as for property tax-even those on moorings pay that---is unavoidable.

[Jim Cate]

G'Day all,

Lots of interesting thoughts here, and as usual I have a couple to add.

AS to us "being the view that the landlubbers paid to see" idea... yep, but what they insist on seeing is pretty, shiny and UNOCCUPIED boats. Not boats with people on them or, God forbid, hanging washing up to dry. This practice is not only frowned upon, in many harbour districts in Australia, it is actually illegal. Hard for me to believe, but this is a written statute. How funny... they can't bear to look at my laundry, but they can hang THEIR laundry out in their yard for me to look at. Go figger!

And as to others opinions of our lifestyle: Over the years we've encountered countless folks who, when they realized that we actually did live solely on our boat and moved around as we wished, said something about how lucky we were. (I won't comment on how hard we worked to get that lucky.) Envy was a more common reaction that approbation. The phrase "I wish that I could do that..." is often heard.

But yes, there have been a very small number who had the opposite reaction, usually accompanied by terms like "irresponsible", "dropout", and "freeloader" or even "tax evader". The latter were reminded that we still paid sales tax (or GST or VAT) on everything we purchased, income tax on whatever income we had (both locally and back in the States), registration fees, license fees and so on... and got bugger-all in return. Very little in the way of police, fire, school, library, street cleaning, road repair, rubbish collection and all the many services that our taxes go to support. I'm not complaining about this situation, mind you, but it rankles to be accused of some sort of cheating.

The bottom line? We wouldn't change our life style for anything else, and intend to continue as long as we are able... no matter what others may say about our choices!

Cheers,

[zeehag]

no flack when shwing off like his....LOL

[halsar]

Originally Posted by Coachbolt61

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) coachbolt.

[halsar]

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