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Old 21-12-2015, 17:02   #1
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A Open Heart Monologue On The Final Decision

Hi all,

I really need your help in make the best decision in my life.

The people:

My gf and I, about 30 years old, togther from 4, both want to get out the ordinary live (pay bills, work no stop for 2 cents, no future in italy,ecc)
She agree with me to move aboard and change our life, travel to place that we will never afford even working 24 hours a day, the sun, the food, eccc

The Fact:

Actually we live in a '70 rented flat, expensive (for us) and quite unconfortable.
Both didn't had the best family and now trying to have a cozy warm place to live.
We think and dream every day: when we will have a confortable sofa, a larger kitchen, a bigger wardrobe, real honest friends, a nice job, ecc we will be happy and in peace with ourself... BUL$$HIT, i know (i guess you can get the idea)
We waste a lot of money on food, wine, dress, product that we don't need, like a capitalism's son to full fill the interior emptyness (i'm honest).
Had nice friends but at the end everyone do its own business, no one really care other's (it took almost 30 years to get it but it is, even the best friend, relatives, parents ecc) so it's time to do our own busiess and began to enjoy the life, our life.

I have a medium-low sailing skills, while my Gf, nothing at all.
This summer we did a week on a small stefini 36 motorsailer (6 people + skipper) with a quite awful company but we really like it, the sun, the sea, you get it...
The idea is to stay in the mediterranean for the summer, and in the winter in hot area.

The solution:

There is a law in italy that we can charter a pleasure boat for 42 days a year legally, so we will live with that money (and maybe going on creating a charter company to legally charter 365 days a year)

I must say that there are no place available in any marina at a reasonable price to work and live on the boat, so living on the hook is the only option, or at last solution, everyday take my gf with the dinghy to the public dock (where she would park the car to go work) and me came back on the boat...

It's years and years that i'm reading and studying about self construction of a boat, and obviously it would be my dream.

We can afford max 80.000 euro, and we thought about this 3 option:

1- Get a 40.000 euro used boat, get familiar with the lifestyle, the sailor life, keep it for 5-6 years and then sell it (quite hard), or better re use all its part (winch, engine, ballast) on a bigger, builded by me boat that now i could not afford.

2- Spend all the 80 k on building right now the "perfect" boat that would fit our use, 7 berts plus owner room, a big spacious and safe steel (low performance) sailboat-motorsailer, with all the confort of a high end home.

The "problem":

In the first case: could we live on a small sailaboat, being happy without meters of wardrobe, a hot bathtube, and so on, but free to travel, live, ecc?
Especially, we would need at least 6 berth to earn enought in 42 days to live for the rest of the year.

Pro: ready to go option, 0 think needed, for sure the faster and best seagoing.
Cons: the least satisfactionary option ( i guess) the least confortable, hard to find that price (let's say max max 50-55.000 euro) a SAFE ocean going boat with also 5-6 berths

In the second case the f.ckin scary of really build a boat, OUR boat, maybe i'm taking it too seriously and overthinking it, in stead of doing it...

Pro: the perfect home we ever dream about (that maybe we don't even need it) that we can take with us everywhere in the world

Cons: the fear of doing it right, and the planning compromises that are hard to decide (like slower, bigger, safer, faster, less confortable, ecc)
Plan the right mix of what we need, hoping to build what we really need, and NOT what WE THINK we will need.


The heart would be for the second choice, i contacted everybody,i pratically found everything that i need, i would be ready to began to build in a month, i have books ,i wrote copybooks full of notes, ecc, but the fear factor stops me and makes me think again if i'm sure about it or not.

Maybe i already choose my idea but i would like to do not get a wrong idea and i need to be reassured about it.


Thanks to everybody who will have the patience to read it all and who will answer.

Stefano
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Old 21-12-2015, 17:49   #2
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Re: A Open Heart Monologue On The Final Decision

find yourself a cheap 26-28 ft yacht,learn to be boat people first.
live in a marina,see what jobs you can find around boats.
get some experience,work as crew on charter boats.
do this for a few years,then you will have a better idea ,if the life suits you,what boat you really want and can afford.
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Old 21-12-2015, 17:56   #3
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Re: A Open Heart Monologue On The Final Decision

Stefano, I think Atoll's advice is likely the best choice. Though I fully understand your hopes and dreams, it is difficult for myself, unfamiliar with the boating opportunities in Italy, to help with a decision. It seems that building the boat yourself would be more costly and also require the ownership or lease of the construction site.
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Old 21-12-2015, 18:13   #4
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Re: A Open Heart Monologue On The Final Decision

Unlucky the only marina available is about 25 miles off from where we live, and it would however cost 3500 euro a year for a 36 ft...and it will cost more the car's fuel to go to work than what we earn every day...

Work on boat in italy is pratically impossible, i knew more then 5 people, every work on luxury yacht in hawaii, caribbean, ecc..but all foreigin owner...

About construction site i already have a good offer, i just need to sign it...

Ialso thought about building a boat around 50.000 euro but it would be a 10 meters, 33 ft, pratically impossible to charter it, live on if for some time, and than extend it (easy with steel) to add berth and get charter....
But from a 33 to a 46 ft, the building is pratically the same, and with a little more efford i can get the definitive boat, something definitive in our life....I can't call a 33 ft boat " just an experiment to see if all my ideas work well as i thought"
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Old 21-12-2015, 18:17   #5
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Re: A Open Heart Monologue On The Final Decision

Stefano- they are right. It is much cheaper to become a sailor and live on a poor boat than building your ideal boat. My first "big" boat (to live in) for 5.ooo euro! She taught me a lot before I moved on. I would suggest you do the same.
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Old 21-12-2015, 18:21   #6
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Re: A Open Heart Monologue On The Final Decision

Quote:
Originally Posted by stefano_ita View Post
Unlucky the only marina available is about 25 miles off from where we live, and it would however cost 3500 euro a year for a 36 ft...and it will cost more the car's fuel to go to work than what we earn every day...
€3500/year for a 36 ft boat isn't all that much ...

You wouldn't have the apartment anymore, which probably costs more.
Or will you be keeping the apartment and I misunderstood?

If you can't afford less than €300 per month in rent / fees ... it's going to be very, very difficult.

I don't know what the Italian salaries are like, but you're in Europe so 2 adults both working should be able to afford around €250-300 per month to rent an apartment or slip in a marina
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Old 21-12-2015, 18:26   #7
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Re: A Open Heart Monologue On The Final Decision

Quote:
Originally Posted by stefano_ita View Post
Unlucky the only marina available is about 25 miles off from where we live, and it would however cost 3500 euro a year for a 36 ft...and it will cost more the car's fuel to go to work than what we earn every day...

Work on boat in italy is pratically impossible, i knew more then 5 people, every work on luxury yacht in hawaii, caribbean, ecc..but all foreigin owner...

About construction site i already have a good offer, i just need to sign it...

Ialso thought about building a boat around 50.000 euro but it would be a 10 meters, 33 ft, pratically impossible to charter it, live on if for some time, and than extend it (easy with steel) to add berth and get charter....
But from a 33 to a 46 ft, the building is pratically the same, and with a little more efford i can get the definitive boat, something definitive in our life....I can't call a 33 ft boat " just an experiment to see if all my ideas work well as i thought"
you need to decide if you want to live on a boat and be a boat person.

or be a land person that hopes to own a boat.
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Old 21-12-2015, 18:30   #8
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Re: A Open Heart Monologue On The Final Decision

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Stefano- they are right. It is much cheaper to become a sailor and live on a poor boat than building your ideal boat. My first "big" boat (to live in) for 5.ooo euro! She taught me a lot before I moved on. I would suggest you do the same.

Uhm....

the most fearing stuff is: will be, my gf and i, be able to live just with what we will enjoy like the sea, the sun, on a "ordinary " sailboat,
Or the mayor problem will be the missing of all the home comfort and we will make a bad experience getting a small and cheap boat first?

In the week in croatia, we just had a bag of dress, a very small bed, water dropping from the cieling due the humidity, a very small refrigerator, but we were very happy, getting a coffee in the morning light, make pasta while sailing, make tomato, tuna, onion bruschetta on the go, we really enyoied it a lot and missed it...We really didn't care about nothing, i think we are on the right way, i'm just scared to regree it, because we can't adapt ourself to the new life...However we will begin this summer, so last 2 weeks of july and all agoust on chartering, then move to the hot climates.

What if build a pratically cheap sailboat?
I'm also a bit scared about buy something that would require to pay on maintenciance what i don't want to pay because it would be a waste of money by not being a definitive stuff (i know it's my own s.itty thinking way that my gf hates of me...especially save money and safety at the sea is not a good combination)....

Thanks all for the support
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Old 21-12-2015, 18:37   #9
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Re: A Open Heart Monologue On The Final Decision

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€3500/year for a 36 ft boat isn't all that much ...

You wouldn't have the apartment anymore, which probably costs more.
Or will you be keeping the apartment and I misunderstood?

If you can't afford less than €300 per month in rent / fees ... it's going to be very, very difficult.

I don't know what the Italian salaries are like, but you're in Europe so 2 adults both working should be able to afford around €250-300 per month to rent an apartment or slip in a marina
No, move out from the apartment and go on board.

Yes it could work paying marina and car's fuel every day, and maybe for 6 month , maybe a year continue the ordinary life plus week end sailing (maybe in bad weather to learn) and in the summer the 42 days chartering...Then maybe move for full time on the hook live and began to travel seriously, very nice idea, just need to find an available place (many owner keep the boat on the hard because there are no available place in marina, in all italy, tons of boat, very few marina)

Thanks for the very good idea

P.s. no, italy is in norhtern africa
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Old 21-12-2015, 18:39   #10
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Re: A Open Heart Monologue On The Final Decision

Quote:
Originally Posted by stefano_ita View Post
the most fearing stuff is: will be, my gf and i, be able to live just with what we will enjoy like the sea, the sun, on a "ordinary " sailboat,
Or the mayor problem will be the missing of all the home comfort and we will make a bad experience getting a small and cheap boat first?
If you're afraid you'll miss the comforts of home, maybe moving to a boat isn't the best idea ...
Even €80k will not buy you a floating apartment with a bubble bath, and if you can't afford a marina slip for a small boat, then how will you pay for all the costs of a large boat?

But are you sure you need all that stuff to be happy? Didn't sound like that to me

Edit: you want to live on the hook ... That makes it a bit harder even, cos you'll have 0 facilities (shower, washing machines etc.) on land? Or can you use those somewhere?

Quote:
Originally Posted by stefano_ita View Post
What if build a pratically cheap sailboat?
I'm also a bit scared about buy something that would require to pay on maintenciance what i don't want to pay because it would be a waste of money by not being a definitive stuff
Maybe you can build cheaper then you can buy, if you build a dinghy
And yes, *every* boat requires maintenance. Constantly.
If you don't want that, then please don't buy a boat ... just charter one whenever you can and enjoy the water & sun that way.
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Old 21-12-2015, 18:41   #11
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Re: A Open Heart Monologue On The Final Decision

Stefano...
Moving to a life on the water takes a lot of time and will have to be a transition with a plan... you can't simply march out of your present lives and into some dream. Not happenin'

You need to spend a lot of time learning about boats, maintenance, navigation, safety at sea and of course to sail or operate the boat you intend to own.

It's hard to build one expensive or perhaps less expensive life while living on land.

My gut reaction is that you cannot jump into a marine business from where you are not... it might take 10 years or so!

Maybe you should go to the Caribbean or the Canaries and give it a go there then the coast of Italy? I really don't know...

What about trying to work for someone else... or finding a partner who is ahead of you?

Study and read and try to get on the water as much as you can.

Good luck!
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Old 21-12-2015, 18:42   #12
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Re: A Open Heart Monologue On The Final Decision

Quote:
Originally Posted by stefano_ita View Post
the most fearing stuff is: will be, my gf and i, be able to live just with what we will enjoy like the sea, the sun, on a "ordinary " sailboat,
Or the mayor problem will be the missing of all the home comfort and we will make a bad experience getting a small and cheap boat first?
You and your gf will be totally happy to live life on the sea with a small cheap boat. You will not miss the comfort of home because you will be having too much fun. Because it is is small and cheap you will not be afraid to make mistakes and because of this you will learn more about life and sailing than you would if you spent your time building the perfect boat.

Later on when you have everything figured out you will move on to a bigger boat and you will be glad you didn't try building one so long ago. Then when you have a bigger boat you will miss being so carefree when you had a smaller one.

But still you will be having fun! And also not regretting you wasted your time trying to build a perfect boat.
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Old 21-12-2015, 18:47   #13
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Re: A Open Heart Monologue On The Final Decision

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i'm just scared to regree it, because we can't adapt ourself to the new life...
Then what?
Worst case scenario: you sell the boat and rent an apartment.
Life will go on and you'll have some cool stories to share.

Better to regret it and move back to land then regret not even trying - imho anyway.
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Old 21-12-2015, 18:50   #14
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Re: A Open Heart Monologue On The Final Decision

I have read your post but I am not clear what your challenge is?

Are you 30 and unhappy with your life? Then change it (change your job, change your town, change your country, change your partner, etc). I say: if you think you are stuck and unhappy, DO something to get unstuck and (possibly, but not surely) happy(-ier). Again, this will not last; because if you are unhappy then that´s because you are carrying it in you. But it may help. Many people feel happier for a time after they change something.

Or else do you want to build a boat? If so, I say if you are a boatbuilder, build one. If you are not a boatbuilder, build something smaller up first: a dinghy, a kayak. It is not easy and not everyone can. It takes skill (not granted) and years of apprenticeship (granted). Just make sure you do not think that building a boat is sailing a boat. These are two different things.

Or do you want to start a charter company? If so, you need some skills (financial planning, business planning, people skills, management skills, marketing skills, etc.) then you need some capital (can be borrowed - but only if you have great skills, great business plan and some proven business track record). Not easy task in the Med due to the ultimate level of competition in this area. Good luck.

Or is it, finally ;-), about sailing the dream = not having to get up at 09:00 to work (for you swap this for getting up at 04:00 to take over the watch). If so, you are 90% done and all it takes is to find out if your partner will match you in chasing THIS dream. Some, for odd reasons, will not. But do not worry, there are many options out there.

Small boats are cheap, the wind is still free and the oceans are vast.

So this is as much of an open heart reply as I could gather at 01:30 UTC (which in this case coincides with my local time).

Clear up your mind and let us know what exactly you want to do. And even if you do not see any reasonable tip in the posts, JUST DO IT. The worst thing that may happen is you will fail and learn something about yourself.

Normally, people ask life changing questions then they will do whatever decision they had already made prior to asking the questions. If you are normal, then here you have your answer.

PLS excuse my typos - it is late and nearly my bunking time.

Sursum corda, cheers,
b.
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Old 21-12-2015, 18:51   #15
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Re: A Open Heart Monologue On The Final Decision

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If you're afraid you'll miss the comforts of home, maybe moving to a boat isn't the best idea ...
Even €80k will not buy you a floating apartment with a bubble bath, and if you can't afford a marina slip for a small boat, then how will you pay for all the costs of a large boat?

The theory yes, but during our summer we didn't miss nothing, my phone's battery lasted 3 days, taking photos, 0 sms, 0 facebook, 0 call, 100% relax, never missed it once, never missed a sofa, never missed anything, just looking on the sea was more fullfilling and more satisfaction than whatever i own or did in the last 30 years...finally

Edit: you want to live on the hook ... That makes it a bit harder even, cos you'll have 0 facilities (shower, washing machines etc.) on land? Or can you use those somewhere?

0 facilities on land but 24V battery with 230 v ac inverter, solar panels and wind generator, water maker, for a washing machine use every 10 days is enought...

Maybe you can build cheaper then you can buy, if you build a dinghy
And yes, *every* boat requires maintenance. Constantly.
If you don't want that, then please don't buy a boat ... just charter one whenever you can and enjoy the water & sun that way.

Lol in fact i was seriously thinking to build within 5.000, for 10 second, then realized it

Answer in blue
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