Better to buy: "dock queen" or "rode hard and put up wet"

[letsgetsailing3]

I'm looking at 25 year old boats, and I'm wondering, is it better to buy a pristine looking dock queen that hasn't been sailed much in the past 10 years, or one with some wear and tear visible, but where the owner is active and has been replacing broken items here and there?


I'm seeing both, and for similar prices. Sometimes the dock queens are more expensive, due to the showroom quality interior that looks relatively unused, as opposed to the ones that have obviously been around the block a few times.

[gamayun]

I bought a boat with relatively few updates in its 30 years. I think I broke just about everything in the first few years of racing on San Francisco Bay, which meant better than new now, but it's also a really expensive process. That said, it seems to me that a boat of the same vintage that has been raced hard, would have additional stresses that a dock queen would not. I'd go with the dock queen and make the upgrades better although it would also depend on how confident you feel about the POs repairs.

[john61ct]

Yes, heavy use wears faster.

A good survey should reveal weaknesses, but nice cosmetics plus less structural wear says dock queen to me, for resale value if nothing else.

Of course don't overpay for the cosmetics alone.

[zeehag]

rode hard and put up wet at least works. dock queen is 100 percent appearance group with unreliable function.

[sailorboy1]

dependson the boat, price, and your plans

But it also greatly depends on the meaning of "dock queen" as it gets thrown around a lot by sofa experts. And owners of old small boats to feel superior because they have some boat from a list that most cruisers wouldn't go near

[Stu Jackson]

"dock queen" or "rode hard and put up wet"

You do realize there is an in between category, don't you? Well cared for would be what I'd call it.

[Woodland Hills]

Some people are inveterate tinkerers or improvers, for them the joy is in putting together the perfect (in their mind) boat as opposed to wearing it out. The boat becomes their “baby” and gets lavished with attention even as it barely gets used for whatever the reason. THAT’S the boat you want to buy....... just as that’s the house or RV or motorcycle you want: the guys pride and joy that he just never had time to actually use that much.

[rbk]

I think 'ridden hard and well maintained' over 'dock queen' but not 'ridden hard and neglected'.

[SV_Harbinger]

Personally I would go for something in between, ridden hard and put away wet, isn't something I would go for, but the supper polished never used boat could be an equal headache, because you have to keep in mind shinny doesn't directly relate to sound.
Both could be hiding (or not hiding, in the first case) serious problems particularly in the mechanical dept. My advice would be to go with a boat that gets used but not abused, a little dingh here and there is fine, but look at her systems, how to they look, how's the rigging (look at the turnbuckles and chain plates, they'll tell you a lot about how the boat was taken care of) always get a survey, but a look around could probably tell you if she's worth a survey, if she really looks rough and so does all her gear, probably best left alone, if you look her over and are still considering buying her, survey time.

[letsgetsailing3]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

dependson the boat, price, and your plans

But it also greatly depends on the meaning of "dock queen" as it gets thrown around a lot by sofa experts. And owners of old small boats to feel superior because they have some boat from a list that most cruisers wouldn't go near

I purposefully exaggerated the differences to draw a distinction.


One boat I'm looking at, for example, hasn't really cruised in 10 years. Maybe some light local sailing. I don't really have the history before that. Nothing against brokers, but pertinent information drops off when they're the ones selling the boat.



The other boat I'm looking at seems to do some pretty good cruising every year, and a lot of maintenance has been done, but it looks a bit more tired.


They're identical models of boat, though the more tired one is a few years older.

[Hamish_ct]

Both the Dock Queen and the Boat ridden hard will need new parts. My preference is to buy the Dock Queen, I know in advance that everything will need to be replaced on either boat, so I would much rather go with a boat that has less stress and looks nice. My opinion.

[letsgetsailing3]

Originally Posted by SV_Harbinger

Personally I would go for something in between, ridden hard and put away wet, isn't something I would go for, but the supper polished never used boat could be an equal headache, because you have to keep in mind shinny doesn't directly relate to sound.
Both could be hiding (or not hiding, in the first case) serious problems particularly in the mechanical dept. My advice would be to go with a boat that gets used but not abused, a little dingh here and there is fine, but look at her systems, how to they look, how's the rigging (look at the turnbuckles and chain plates, they'll tell you a lot about how the boat was taken care of) always get a survey, but a look around could probably tell you if she's worth a survey, if she really looks rough and so does all her gear, probably best left alone, if you look her over and are still considering buying her, survey time.

Yes, the ideal boat would be the one that's been used but still looks perfect and systems have been regularly replaced because the boat was someone's "baby", but also priced realistically. I haven't found that one yet, but I'll try and be ready if it pops up.

[letsgetsailing3]

Originally Posted by Hamish_ct

Both the Dock Queen and the Boat ridden hard will need new parts. My preference is to buy the Dock Queen, I know in advance that everything will need to be replaced on either boat, so I would much rather go with a boat that has less stress and looks nice. My opinion.

I have to say, that's the one that tempts me the most.

[Tornadosailing]

I bought a dock queen a little more than a year ago. It's a great boat, but dock queens are definitely expensive. Being in the auto repair business I knew what to expect. It's no different than buying a garage queen. My boat was 9 years old when I bought it, and had less than 500 hours on the engines, and 300 hours on the generator. The sails looked brand new. The boat was used so little that the guy never even bothered to change the language on the instruments to english. It had a permanent heading error alarm on the autopilot, because the owner couldn't read french so he couldn't shut it off. So when I say dock queen, I mean dock queen.

I just replaced the standing rigging to the tune of $12,000. The electronics were also original and a mix and match of Furuno and Raymarine, and a mix and match of NMEA protocols. Just bought all new Garmin and dropped another $8000. The freezer space is seriously lacking and will need to be upgraded. I've had problems with engine start relays, finally got that resolved. The battery monitor was never installed correctly. I discovered that while I was replacing it with a new one. The seals in the heads had all dried out. I will need a watermaker to go cruising. The anchor was the original undersized delta that won't hold in the best of conditions. Bought a new Mantus 85#. The guy had no use for a dinghy, so it came with the smallest dinghy known to man and it had pretty much dry rotted, and there was no dinghy motor. The list goes on and on.

In short, the lesson of the dock queen is that it's not ready to go cruising. Not even close. Expensive items will need to be replaced simply due to age. To make matters worse, dock queen owners don't upgrade or add cruising equipment. So all the things you would have to buy to make a new boat cruise ready still need to be bought, plus some. Don't get me wrong, I love my dock queen turned actual sailboat, but dock queens are far from perfect boats no matter how new they look.

[letsgetsailing3]

So how can you tell if the standing rigging will need replacing? Shouldn't that come up on the survey?


Seems to me that if it hasn't been replaced in 10 years, it might be due. And any boat that's been sitting 10 years will not have had that done.