Better to buy: "dock queen" or "rode hard and put up wet"

[john61ct]

Pretty minor $ factor, if that's the worst she needs you've struck gold.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3

So how can you tell if the standing rigging will need replacing? Shouldn't that come up on the survey?


Seems to me that if it hasn't been replaced in 10 years, it might be due. And any boat that's been sitting 10 years will not have had that done.

My rigging is at least 15 years old. 5 years of that while loose on the hard unattended. I plan to replace it in 4-5 years before long distance sailing as in 50-100 miles offshore heading South

My boat is 45 years old. Another thing is the quality of the boat. If you don't know boats, here are some good ones.

http://www.mahina.com/cruise.html

https://atomvoyages.com/planning/goo...oats-list.html

[john61ct]

Those are "the lists"

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

owners of old small boats to feel superior because they have some boat from a list that most cruisers wouldn't go near

If you find any pristine "dock queen" bargain examples of any of those, please let me know 8-D

[Tornadosailing]

Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3

So how can you tell if the standing rigging will need replacing? Shouldn't that come up on the survey?


Seems to me that if it hasn't been replaced in 10 years, it might be due. And any boat that's been sitting 10 years will not have had that done.

That's pretty much it. I bought a 9 year old boat, and at 10 years I replaced the rigging. Light or little use isn't a factor when you have exactly 3 wires holding up 70 feet of mast. It's just part of the deal.

[rbk]

Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3

So how can you tell if the standing rigging will need replacing? Shouldn't that come up on the survey?


Seems to me that if it hasn't been replaced in 10 years, it might be due. And any boat that's been sitting 10 years will not have had that done.

Most surveyors will give you a general idea of its condition and make a recommendation for a rig survey from a qualified rigger. Same with engines, they’re give an idea general condition but will suggest you contact a mechanic for an engine survey.

[Tillsbury]

You will sometimes find particularly good dock queens. They are often sold for quite sad reasons. I have looked at boats in amazing condition that have been maintained to the hilt and prepared for ocean passages that existed solely in the owners' imagination, or where family circumstances have caused the plan to change unexpectedly.

In your example I would go with the less heavily used model as long as the surveyor approves of everything. Standing rigging is going to need replacing whatever the boat's history (unless it's just been done). Cosmetic finishing inside and out is very difficult to "repair". Once a boat looks worn it tends to stay looking worn.

[El Pinguino]

I like to compare it with a used motor car.... which would you buy.... the 10 year old with pristine upholstery, trim, and duco and a blown engine or the one with a near new engine and trashed interior?

Renewing the rig and sails is easy..... a few days at most.... bringing weary old interior varnish work back up to scratch will take forever... longer if you are trying to live aboard and/or go sailing at the same time.

And lets not start on decks.... when she was about 30yo my boat's treadmaster needed replacing ( 39 foot boat ).... cost for the yard to do it NZ$15k... boat next to mine? 42 foot.... NZ$70k to remove and replace her teak.

In reality boats lie somewhere between 'dock queen' and 'weathered'..

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by Tillsbury

You will sometimes find particularly good dock queens. They are often sold for quite sad reasons. I have looked at boats in amazing condition that have been maintained to the hilt and prepared for ocean passages that existed solely in the owners' imagination, or where family circumstances have caused the plan to change unexpectedly.

In your example I would go with the less heavily used model as long as the surveyor approves of everything. Standing rigging is going to need replacing whatever the boat's history (unless it's just been done). Cosmetic finishing inside and out is very difficult to "repair". Once a boat looks worn it tends to stay looking worn.

+1 to all that, better phrased than I did

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Tornadosailing

That's pretty much it. I bought a 9 year old boat, and at 10 years I replaced the rigging. Light or little use isn't a factor when you have exactly 3 wires holding up 70 feet of mast. It's just part of the deal.

Yes, but some of us have 8 wires holding up 30' of mast plus the sails, topping lift+ main sheet, etc. The mainsheet on my last beach cat served as the backstay when the spinnaker was up so you had to keep it tight

If you are just sailing locally and less than say 15 to 20 miles offshore you can probably go longer on your rigging. I plan to replace mine at 20 years.

Is totally up to the boat owner though. I've only had one rigging failure and that time there were already breaks in the wire. It was on a beach cat

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3

I purposefully exaggerated the differences to draw a distinction.


One boat I'm looking at, for example, hasn't really cruised in 10 years. Maybe some light local sailing. I don't really have the history before that. Nothing against brokers, but pertinent information drops off when they're the ones selling the boat.



The other boat I'm looking at seems to do some pretty good cruising every year, and a lot of maintenance has been done, but it looks a bit more tired.


They're identical models of boat, though the more tired one is a few years older.

It's a no brainer to me really. If everything else is equal, or even if the "dock queen" doesn't have quite as many accessories, get the dock queen less worn out boat. A more lightly used boat is a boat with less wear and tear. If everything checks out get that one!!!


Also I bet the dock queen has had less "stuff" done to it over the years, which is less chances "stuff" got done poorly. Lots of times owners "fixing" and installing stuff really takes a toll on a boat.

[daletournier]

Choose the one that's in the best condition.

[mjgill1]

Some really great responses here.
My thought is a conglomeration of some of the best ones. Dock queen get's my overall vote. Some dock queens are not cared for at all and just sit and rot. Dock rot. Some rode hard boats are not cared for. Someone buys a boat, sails it for 5 or 6 years and sells it. I would search for a boat that had an owner that really liked the boat, took good care of it, preferably was prepping or had prepped it for cruising and had some event that necessitated their selling the boat. Not that I would wish that on anyone, but it happens all the time.

Good luck!

[Bawlmer]

Finding something in-between would be best. Absent that I would go with rode hard because at least the systems are being stressed on a regular basis and get replaced (hopefully) when they break. With a dock queen it is anyone's guess.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by Woodland Hills

Some people are inveterate tinkerers or improvers, for them the joy is in putting together the perfect (in their mind) boat as opposed to wearing it out. The boat becomes their “baby” and gets lavished with attention even as it barely gets used for whatever the reason. THAT’S the boat you want to buy....... just as that’s the house or RV or motorcycle you want: the guys pride and joy that he just never had time to actually use that much.

Even better is the skilled improver that likes to perfect the boat, prove it with regular use, and then move on to another because the one he has is perfected and there is nothing left to do.


I fall in that catagory. But not cheap, since this catagory knows what he is selling and isn't burned out.

[bcboomer]

I bought the "rode hard and put away wet" version and a friend bought a hardly used "dock queen" with lots of time and love spent making it sparkle.

I've had no end of small issues, mostly inexpensive. He's had to replace the engine and sails the 1st year, even though they looked immaculate.
I'm money ahead, he's time ahead.

So it doesn't matter which one you buy, you're probably going to spend lots of time and money getting it the way you want it.