Anchorage outside of marina

[Captain Parry]

Raise the fees get less people paying them.
Blame it on the rich cause they, and not the liberal government, create jobs to people who then may buy a boat.
Don't forget NIMN. Not in my neighborhood.
When will the bureaucracy learn basic economics?

[Captain Parry]

I am at near Fort Myers,FLORIDA.

[wjsobers]

Ken,

I am on a red Chrysler 26. I will be at my boat for a bit today. I probably won't be at my boat tomorrow til after 5. Would love to meet up for a few whatevers.

[Captain Parry]

941-840-4084 is my local number .. On my way to the gym.

[hellosailor]

"And FWIW, I was under the impression that unless specifically prohibited, any navigable water not in a marked channel was "an anchorage", to be used at the skipper's discretion."

Dunno, Jim. Maybe I was raised wrong. I was under the impression that an "anchorage" was an area where the person owning the bottom rights, or the party having sovereign control over them (i.e. the town the state, the fed) had formally declared it to be an anchorage area subject to specific terms and often control.

So in the Coast Pilot here in the northeast, you'll find "general anchorages" and "special anchorages" with different rules for each. But if it isn't specifically deemed an anchorage, and shown as such on the NOAA charts or similar public records, it ain't an anchorage. Everything else is just a place where boats might happen to drop an anchor, at their own risk.

Like the morning we woke up to find we'd anchored next to a seaplane fairway. Oh, fun that was. (Not.)

Kinda the same way that the USCG can't charge you with "obstructing a channel" unless the charts specifically SHOW a *designated* channel there.

[Mike OReilly]

My understanding is the same as Jim's, which is why I expressed confusion over the situation. Notwithstanding a few quirky jerky local areas, in Canada the rules (as I've always understood them) basically are you can anchor pretty much anywhere as long as you're NOT obstructing channels or otherwise causing danger. No need for official designation. It's just part of basic maritime law.

There are plenty of areas off limits, but these are the exception. And there are designated anchorage areas, but these are generally guides for big commercial boats, not meant as exclusive.

Is this another American oddity?

[Kita]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

My understanding is the same as Jim's, which is why I expressed confusion over the situation. Notwithstanding a few quirky jerky local areas, in Canada the rules (as I've always understood them) basically are you can anchor pretty much anywhere as long as you're obstructing channels or otherwise causing danger. No need for official designation. It's just part of basic maritime law.

There are plenty of areas off limits, but these are the exception. And there are designated anchorage areas, but these are generally guides for big commercial boats, not meant as exclusive.

Is this another American oddity?

Yeah, I hate to admit it but it is..I think what got this going in Florida was a few local places kinda would say this is ours & you can't stay here but 24hrs or another one will say not at all so they came up with a unified state law that was saying as long as you're not blocking a channel you could pretty much anchor wherever but then that didn't last,high dollar land owners complain about boats blocking there view & whatever. .add to that in FL there is a very real derelict boat problem where people will park a POS boat in front of the rich land owner & just camp out forever! So then they changed it again so that some communities could claim certain areas of water to prevent the derelict problem. If there wasn't so many of them I'm sure none of this would be an issue but you can go to some places and you can just tell something needs to be done and I'm not a fan of Big Brother but I can understand there's a problem

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by wjsobers

The CG said we were fine. They checked their charts and had to call DNR to confirm the anchorage. Now that it's been confirmed, the marina is more angry. I suspect that is partly due to them thinking I will tell the entire boating community.

Does it mean in some states anchoring is prohibited unless an anchorage is marked on an official chart???

I know some states have such laws.

b.

[hellosailor]

Mike-
"Is this another American oddity?" What "this" ?
You have to bear in mind that laws in the US area a quiltwork of 50 semi-sovereign States (plus 12 more areas) and while some go back to British laws, others (like Florida and Puerto Rico) will go back to Spanish tradition.
Who the bottom belongs to, and what you can do on it, vary. On defined navigable waterways, vessels normally have a federal right of navigation, which has been ruled to include to right to stop and anchor from time to time for specific reasons. That's not the same as the right to homestead there. Then again, in parts of the NE you will find that the bottomland was literally sold to townships and others, to raise money for WW2 Liberty Bonds, or was actually titled to the present owners by Royal Patent in the 1700's. So there's no fast way to tell who owns the bottom--absent some public notification.
But in general? Overall? Vessels have a right to drop anchor anywhere. Same way that pedestrians have a right to sit down anywhere. And if they're foolish enough to do that in the middle of a busy street....You know how that movie ends.
At least in a designated anchorage (special or general) you know what is considered normal and appropriate, and that commercial traffic in particular should (ha) know better than to plow through.
Just because I'm sleeping in the park, doesn't make it into a "bedroom". And vice versa, so to speak.


I heard Florida passed some new legislation about anchoring effective July 1, but haven't heard what it affects.

[Mike OReilly]

Thanks HS. Part of the fun of the forum is learning the particulars of how other places work. Canada is also a federal nation with a division of sovereignty. But our national government controls most waterways. And except in special circumstances, the bottoms are reserved to the Crown.

We don't appear to have the same legal, regulatory and enforcement pressures many places face in the US, but we also don't have the same population and development pressures. In areas that we do (like near Toronto and Kingston, as noted here), we seem to face similar challenges ... so not that different I guess.

[desodave]

Like Mike I appreciate learning about other jurisdictions and their laws regarding boating. I agree with the general sentiment of the previous posts re the marina. However, the only issue I haven't heard mentioned yet concerns the presence (or not) of any submarine cables/pipes in the area. We have a few areas around here where what look like good anchorages are not because of the underwater infrastructure. If you and the CG have had a friendly chat already, it seems unlikely that it could be a problem.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Thanks HS. Part of the fun of the forum is learning the particulars of how other places work. Canada is also a federal nation with a division of sovereignty. But our national government controls most waterways. And except in special circumstances, the bottoms are reserved to the Crown.

We don't appear to have the same legal, regulatory and enforcement pressures many places face in the US, but we also don't have the same population and development pressures. In areas that we do (like near Toronto and Kingston, as noted here), we seem to face similar challenges ... so not that different I guess.

Particularly in reference to Florida (not so much Ohio), you have a great deal more issues with people just taking up residence on an anchored boat. If you have little money, you can pick up a derelict (but floating) old boat get it out to an anchorage and take up residence.

In Canada, there has never been a need to address the situation as the winters take care of the problem and poor people usually can't afford a separate winter home.

The question is at what point does anchoring stop being part of the right to navigate and start becoming the defacto ownership of the bottom lands by an individual boater who has anchored in one spot for months. This is where Florida struggles. Decades ago when there was lots of space and little development, if you wanted to anchor out in some rural lagoon for months, it wasn't worth anyone bothering you over it. Now development as boomed and lots of people are anchoring in popular urban areas and now it comes into conflict.

In this case based on the limited location information given, it looks like the OP is at least marginally impacting the ability of other boaters to navigate the area (or with more details, he may be able to demonstrate that he isn't). If he really is impacting the ability of other boaters to navigate the area, it does become an issue. My guess is it's not a clear cut issue, so the CG would prefer to look the other way, so they give a wishy-washy answer and point to the DNR. The marina on the other hand likely has customers complaining and they aren't getting any benefit from a guy anchored out, so their incentive is to complain.

[GordMay]

Title 33: Navigation and Navigable Waters

CHAPTER I: COAST GUARD, DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY

SUBCHAPTER I: ANCHORAGES

PART 109: GENERAL

109.10 - Special anchorage areas.

An Act of Congress of April 22, 1940, provides for the designation of special anchorage areas wherein vessels not more than sixty-five feet in length, when at anchor, will not be required to carry or exhibit anchorage lights. Such designation is to be made after investigation, by rule, regulation, or order, the procedure for which will be similar to that followed for anchorage grounds under section 7 of the Rivers and Harbors Act of March 4, 1915, as referred to in ? 109.05. The areas so designated should be well removed from the fairways and located where general navigation will not endanger or be endangered by unlighted vessels. The authority to designate special anchorage areas was transferred to and vested in the Secretary of Homeland Security by section 902(j) of the Coast Guard and Maritime Transportation Act of 2006 (Pub. L. 109-241, 120 Stat 516), and delegated to the Commandant of the U.S. Coast Guard in Department of Homeland Security Delegation No. 0170.1. The Commandant redelegated the authority to establish anchorage grounds to each Coast Guard District Commander as provided in 33 CFR 1.05-1(e)(1)(I).

➥ https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/33/109.10

[hellosailor]

That's only half of it, Gord. A "special anchorage" area in the NE often means a municipal mooring field or other area under control of a local harbormaster or other party. The nice thing is, you can shut down at night and go to sleep. But they go hand and hand with "general anchorage" areas, where vessels may be required to maintain a radio watch and anchor light all night as well. (At least that used to be the regulation.)

Dave-
Cables shouldn't impact the issue of what is or isn't an anchorage. If there are submerged cables near shore, there is inevitably a large warning sign "DO NOT ANCHOR SUBMERGED CABLES" because after all, who wants ten or fifty thousand volts on their anchor rode, and a bill for a new cable? Then on the charts, there are all those "WTF are those?" squiggly purple lines to remind folks that anchoring, or trawling, might be a bad idea.
If the marina were clever, they'd just put up some "CABLE" signs. No one wants to drop anchor in that mess.

[wjsobers]

Here are a few pictures of me at anchor. Not in anyone's way. I have a bow anchor set and a stern anchor set. Tried to get further towards the center, but eventually gave up.